Snape as the dark young man/Extra Material On Trelawney's Card Reading

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 141942


> AyanEva:
> I really wished they'd just happend to mention the particular spread
> that Trelawney's using. It would really help. I don't know what
> positions these cards are in!

Valky:
That's a really important point, AyanEva. We could suppose that if JKR
does have working knowledge of tarot that she would also know that the
foundation of the reading is missing. If that was deliberate on JK's
behalf and the cards are intended to allude to anything plotwise in
their meaning, we are left with castles in the air no matter what the
interpretation. 

IMO there are a couple of methods that Trelawney could be applying
strictly from what is available to us. The first of these is reading
from the bottom of the deck. THis is something a tarot reader can do
just prior to laying a specific spread. The bottom of the deck cards
are read in as though they were a sentence. When the sentence ends the
reader has a general overview of the impdending as it relates to them. 
An experienced reader can tell from the sentence at the bottom of the
deck things like the theme of the reading, and whether thre is a clear
unimpeded view of the subject of the reading or if the, lets call it
'vibe' for the sake of brevity, has come under unexpected influence
during shuffling. Okay thats almost a tarot lesson, and I don't mind
if you're laughing <g> because I know I sound like Trelawney. The
point is that this is the theory of tarot reading, and it is possible
tht Trelawney might be applying it. 

Now in that case it could make sense that Harry's presence has
interfered with Trelawneys reading. Harry is projecting serious vibe
throughout HBP (Snape hating Snape seeming to read his mind without
looking at him,, obsessing about Malfoy's mission, attracting a crowd
everywhere he goes) in all senses of it, so I can honestly concieve of
subplotting that involves the effect Harry's aura is having as he goes
through his sixth yer.

So having said all that, the Tarot reading would then have been
Trelawney checking her cards for influence and, finding Harry there,
saying 'well that's not right the cards are marked' so she begins to
shuffle again. This is what Tarot readers do. 

Okay so to apply interpretation using the first method we could say
that the sentence is almost entirely for Harry. And now I will read
those cards for Harry:

They are all Swords - When swords come up in numbers like this there
is too much air. Too much air causes instability - this can go to the
point of obsession. A number of swords in a reading tend to indicate
turmoil and overthinking. The first message to Harry (and probably to
Trelawney too) is that they have unhealthy obsessions of the mind ging
on right now. 

There are 4 swords. Having four Swords in a reading is actually good,
rather than bad as an omen. The cards are divided half and half and
although they all may be cards of individually bad omen, there is a
paradoxical good to them. For Harry, this will mean that bad things
will be ultimately for the good, and for Trelawney it could mean that
she will get what she wants with thanks to tragic circumstances. 
 
The number combinations are 2+10+7 = 19 and Knave = 11
The Major Arcana cards 19 and 11, are respectively the Sun and
Justice, hence the numerological theme of the cards is also a good
omen. (But since they are playing cards and not tarot I won't go into
that too deeply)  The combination of the 2 10 and 7 of air cards in a
sentence with the seven in the centre suggest that the mistrust issue
is the strongest of the three issues. The two peripheral issues are a
stalemate (which is true of both Harry and Trelawneys questions as we
as Snape and Dumbledore) and the issue of disaster, destruction and
violence. 

In this way the cards definitely echo Dumbledores very words to Harry
- The Unbreakable Vow, not important, Attempts on my life, not
important - But let me tell you this for the last time and please
recognise it is important - I trust Severus Snape.

Okay so a quick overview of the cards reveals the stalemate and the
violence as peripheral and trust as central to Harry and Trelawneys
question. Now we are ready to apply an individual reading of the cards.

The sentence reads - There is two in opposition neither can win from
here, but the threat of violence looms on one side. The most important
matter at hand is that there is mistrust, a face-off, and a need to
move on from the past (look it up if you don't believe me). 

The Fourth card is the close of the sentence. And here is where I need
to bring Harry's question into the reading. What is Harry's question
as he walks to Dumbledores office? Well it could be one of two things
that appear with this scene at the beginning of the chapter, or it
could be both of them.

First Harry and Hermione were earlier wondering who the Half-blood
Prince is - The cards give a concise answer to that question - A Dark
young man who dislikes you.
Second Harry is wondering what Dumbledore will be teaching him about
in the lessons as this is Harry's first lesson. Again the cards give a
concise answer - A Dark young man who dislikes you.

So the sentence reads as above in answering one or both of these two
questions. The sentence is:
There is two in opposition neither can win from here, but the threat
of violence looms on one side. The most important matter at hand is
that there is mistrust, a face-off, and a need to move on from the past.

Again with the second of the two options, the cards are echoing
Dumbledores words that his lessons have everything to do with the
prophecy. 

Therefore if the cards are a sentence in answer to Harry's question
"What is Dumbledore going to teach me?" then the answer is that
Dumbledore is going to teach Harry about the things that are in
opposition ith each other (this could be Voldemorts own inner turmoil
that Harry feels sympathy for during the lessons), a peripheral issue,
he is going to teach Harry about Voldemorts magic and how to fight it,
the other peripheral issue. But the central thing that Dumbledore will
teach Harry is the seven of spades. Notice the number 7! Hint hint. 

And if the cards are answering the question "Who is the Half-blood
Prince." Then the answer is the Half Blood Prince on one side is a two
of spades- A person that can never seem to win a person in conflict
with themself. On the other side HBP is a ten of Spades- A card that
warns of danger and violence. And in the middle the very central issue
of this person is trust, confrontation and a need to let go of the
past. This all should be enough if you've been paying attention, but
in case you weren't he is named. The Knave of Spades. (You know Knave
of Spades actually translates to Prince of Division ie Half Blood
Prince) A Dark young man that dislikes the questioner.

Okay, probably nothing new there for anyone, except for the seven of
spades corresponding to the central most important thing about DD's
lessons. If any other tarot types want to take a shot at that I'd
enjoy reading it.


The other reading Trelawney could be doing AyanEva touches on here: 


AyanEva: 
> I just looked up 4 card spreads and got that 4 card spreads are for
> making quick decisions. And that's all I could find. The positions 
> are:
> 1)Ahead- What you need to do to achieve your goals
> 2)Back- negative actions/obstacles that are going to get in the way 
> of you trying to reach your goal 
> 3)Stray- stuff that's causing you to stray
> 4)Fortune- whatever's on this card is an added bonus
> 
> Unfortunately, using this spread makes no sense whatsoever. NOTHING
> fits. 

Valky:
The reason things don't fit well is because this 4 card question
spread is not necessarily read with the concomitance implied here. 
The relationships above give a lopsided reading, which is a style that
fids itself distant from tarot and card reading traditions.
Traditional tarot theory has a rule of thumb that things expand from a
central point, much like life growing from a seed. Unidirectional card
relationships like the ones above, although they might be used by
some, would be different from methods that are based in the old school
principles of Tarot. It might be that JKR, if she has indeed put a
readable tarot spread in HBP, won't have put an unconventional one in,
but a very steeped traditional one. Hence it would look more like this:
1. Past - where the questioners question comes from. 
2. Present. - The Questioners hand in the matter. 
3. Surrounding. - Influences that come into play.
4. The outcome or fortune. Falls separate from he other three. 

Does it make more sense now?

I'll leave that one to everyone else to draw upon, since I have
already done the one above and I don't think I should have all the fun <g>

Valky