[HPforGrownups] CHAPDISC: HBP 2, Spinner's End

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 142055

Potioncat wrote:
 [snip excellent summary]

1. Bellatrix kills a fox, thinking it could be an Auror. Does she
suspect Snape's home is being watched, or is she always looking over
her shoulder for an Auror? Do you think all DEs would be this trigger
happy, or is it just Bella?
 Debbie:
IMO, it's just Bella who is perpetually on her guard against the Aurors, who
are undoubtedly looking for her. She is, after all, an escapee from Azkaban
and undoubtedly wanted as well for the murder of Sirius Black. I don't think
she's just doing this because they're visiting Snape, as that would presume
a closer relationship between the Auror unit of the MoM and the Order than
we know exists. She must be like this whenever she goes out in public, which
must be rather seldom, since she's on the lam. The very fact that she's out
and about implies that it's very important to her to keep Narcissa from
talking to Snape.

 3. Bella knows Narcissa is going to visit Snape, but she is caught by
surprise (equaling that of many from this list) at the location. She
calls it a Muggle dunghill and doubts that any of "our kind" has ever
set foot there. In fact, Snape, Pettigrew and Narcissa all seem
familiar with the area. Yet it was Bella who was supposed to be part
of young Severus's gang. What do you think is going on here? How long
do you think Snape has been using this location?
 Debbie:
I've given serious consideration to the idea that this is Snape's childhood
home, except that when he lived there, the mill was in operation and this
was a vibrant working-class community. If it's not Snape's home, perhaps it
belonged to another of his Muggle relatives.

 4. Snape's tiny sitting room is lined with leather bound books and
contains a threadbare sofa, an old armchair and a rickety table. It
had the "feeling of a dark, padded cell." A padded cell is used for
someone who needs protection from himself. What does this room, or
the house and neighborhood, tell us about Snape? Do you think this is
his usual home away from Hogwarts?
 Debbie:
Other than the same thing the Foe Glass tells us about him: that Snape's
worst enemy is himself?
 Oddly, this description bears a very strong resemblance to my longtime
(pre-OOP) perception of Snape's childhood home. In my imagination, Snape got
on poorly with the neighborhood children (though until this summer I
imagined them to be wizarding children) and retreated to the solitude of his
family's study where he hones his contempt while poring over old wizarding
texts where he taught himself the Dark Arts (thus reassuring himself that he
was better than they were and therefore didn't need them).
 The knowledge that Snape had a muggle father, and possibly lived in a
working class Muggle neighborhood, reinforces this picture in my mind -- all
that's necessary is to substitute muggle children for wizarding children,
and factoring in an abusive muggle father, it's even more likely that Snape
thought himself to be far superior to anyone, and longed for an environment
where he'd receive the respect he deserved.

 5. Narcissa is described as having a note of hysteria in her voice
and the look of a drowned person. She then enters a room that has the
feeling of a padded cell. What does that tell us about Narcissa?
How does that fit with her actions later in this chapter?
 Debbie:
Everything about the scene paints Narcissa as desperate for her only son.
She intends to reveal a secret that the Dark Lord has forbidden her to
reveal. She wants Snape's promise effectively in blood.
 And she seems to know her son well, if she is so desperate. Is Draco all
she has? What does this say about her relationship with Lucius?


6. Snape, Narcissa and Bella drank a toast with blood-red wine. I'm
not sure which image came sooner to my mind at that point: Vampire!
Snape or Sir Patrick Spens and his wrecked ship. In English ballads,
nothing good comes after drinking "bluid-red" wine. Elf-made wine
doesn't sound too safe either. How many stories involve some danger
at drinking something made by elves or fairies? These are magical
folk, so perhaps it's not so dangerous. Do you think this was just
setting the magical mood, or was JKR waving a flag?
 Debbie:
I might contrast the "elf-made" wine unfavorably with Madam Rosmerta's best
mead. The impression is that what Snape offered was not of the highest
quality. Snape was quick to refill the glasses, too, perhaps to loosen their
tongues, as we know that wine need not be magical to serve as a Recklessness
Draught.

 7. This is a serious chapter, with lots of dark images. It's
informative too, but it's difficult to decide which information is
truth and which is deception. What images or feelings made an
impression on you? How do they affect your interpretation of the
story?
 Debbie:
It confirmed many suspicions, but there are statements that remind us that
we are not to take all statements at face value. For example, Snape's claim
of credit for Sirius Black (Dumbledore had previously blamed Kreacher). What
came to my mind was how carefully Snape must have rehearsed his story, and
how long Bellatrix has been waiting to interrogate Snape. And as I wrote
yesterday on another thread, I think Snape rather enjoys playing this role
and he could not resist taking Bella on, and he especially relished telling
Bella that he knew Draco's task (whether or not it was true).
 For what it's worth, I surmised almost immediately what Draco's task was
and read the rest of the book in anticipation of the events on the tower.


8. Narcissa asks Snape to make an Unbreakable Vow and Bella
is "astonished" that he agrees. It looks like a wedding ceremony, and
is obviously very serious. We've seen that magical contracts have
serious consequences--the Goblet of Fire in GoF, and the SNEAK hex in
OoP. None of us can really understand why Snape agreed, but is this
just Business as Usual in the Wizarding World? How does this vow
compare to magical deals in fairy tales and myths?
 Debbie:
I contrast the seriousness of the making of the UV in this chapter with
Ron's comment later on -- that the Twins (who would then have been about
seven) tried to trap Ron into such a thing. These things are really
dangerous! Considering the deadly effect of failing to keep the vow, I would
imagine that they are rare indeed and can't understand who would tell a
small child *who is not supposed to do magic at all* of their existence. On
second thought, maybe *that*'s why purebloods were at risk of dying out!

 9. (Thanks to Carol for this question): Like "The Other
Minister," "Spinner's End" is written from a point of view other than
Harry's. But while "Minister" uses the usual third-person limited-
omniscient narrator, who sees through the eyes of the Muggle Prime
Minister rather than Harry's, "Spinner's End" dispenses with a point-
of-view
character altogether. Narcissa, Bellatrix, Snape, and Wormtail (if
we're counting vermin) are presented from the third-person dramatic
or third-person objective
point of view, meaning that they are seen from the outside with a
minimum of commentary and no direct insight into their thoughts. It's
as if both the
narrator and the reader are invisible, silent witnesses to the scene,
much like Harry on the tower. How does this change in the point of
view affect our reading of this chapter? Why do you think JKR chose
this point of view rather than letting us into, say, Narcissa's or
Bellatrix's mind? How does having a chapter written from a point of
view other than Harry's affect your reading of HBP or the series
itself? Should JKR have omitted the first two chapters in order to
maintain a Harrycentric view throughout the book? Why or why not?
 10. Here's a question to think about when we move into chapter
3: "The Other Minister" begins with a Muggle receiving two visitors.
It's an informative, yet humorous chapter. The dreary "Spinners End"
begins with two visitors coming to a very different Muggle
location. "Will and Won't" begins with someone waiting for a visitor
and returns us to a more humorous mood. How do these three chapters
work together?
 Debbie:
I'm answering questions 9 & 10 together. IMO, the most effective opening
chapter in the series to date is the beginning of GoF, which begins, like
Spinners End, with a third person objective POV and, like a movie camera,
eventually focuses our attention on what will become the climax of the book.

 Spinners end does something the same thing, beginning with a movie camera
view of the village, and then focusing in on Narcissa and Bella and
following them into the house, where we see the events unfold. Our attention
is drawn to what will lead to the climax of the book. (GoF is a little
different, because parts are told, IIRC, from Frank Bryce's POV, but the
effect is the same.) Opening a story from a limiting third party POV can be
very effective, I think.
 The problem I see with the effectiveness of the HBP opening, however, is
that Spinners End was preceded by the relatively meaningless chapter one
which, while interesting in approach, was not important to the story. There
is nothing in that chapter we could not have learned from reading along with
the newspapers at the beginning of ch. 3, and it could have been consigned
to the GARBAGE SCOW.* Moreover, when we arrive at chapter 3 there is yet
another beginning as the narrative draws our attention first to all the
newspapers before finally Harry's POV is introduced. (In GoF, in contrast,
Harry's POV began at the very beginning of chapter 2, which made for better
contrast and a quicker jump into the main story. Come to think of it,
though, I think I once lobbed that chapter into the GARBAGE SCOW, too.)
 Sorry for the digression, but what I liked least about the POV of Spinners
End is all of the other POV shifts at the beginning of the book. This one
worked for me. The others, less so.

Debbie
posting before this gets any longer
 * GARBAGE SCOW - Gibberish, Altogether Redundant Blather And Gobbledegook
Everywhere! Superfluous Can(n)on Obtains Welcome


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