Snape in the Shrieking Shack, was Re: Are appearances important to Snape?

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 142257

> > Christina:
> > 
> > A good *hour*?  Snape enters on page 352 (US Hardcover) and 
> > reveals himself on page 357.  That's five pages.  Act it out; 
> > Snape was listening to Lupin for less than 10 minutes.  
> 
> a_svirn:
> Surely not? You probably can read it in ten or even less minutes, 
> but acting it out? Why, only listening to the cricked door would 
> take a couple of minutes. And even if it was less than an hour it 
> was still quite enough to realise that the kids were not in any 
> danger from Sirius and Lupin. 

Christina:

First of all, the scene is nearly 100% dialogue.  It's practically a
monologue.  Here is all of the actual action that occurs (including
things that happened while somebody was speaking):

(all from PoA, US Hardcover, pages 353-357)
1.  "Lupin broke off.  There had been a loud creak behind him.  The
bedroom door had opened of its own accord.  All five of them stared at
it.  Then Lupin strode toward it an looked out into the landing."

2. "...said Lupin, still looking at the door in a puzzled way."

3. "He pushed his graying hair out of his eyes, thought for a moment,
then said..."

4. "He looked sober and tired.  Ron started to interrupt, but Hermione
said, 'Shh!'  She was watching Lupin very intently..."

5. "...Lupin sighed and looked directly at Harry..."

6. "Harry couldn't see where this story was going, but he was
listening raptly all the same.  The only sound apart from Lupin's
voice was Scabbers's frightened squeaking."

7. "...snarled Black, who was still watching Scabbers with a horrible
sort of hunger on his face."

8. "Lupin's face hardened, and there was self-disgust in his voice."

9. "...said Black harshly, taking his eyes off Scabbers for the first
time in minutes and looking up at Lupin."

10. "He looked up at Harry, Ron, and Hermione"

11. "Black made a derisive noise."

That's it.  Most of these are describing the characters and are *not*
action-based.  Everyone is basically standing around the whole time. 
2, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 10 all describe a character looking at another
character (usually done while somebody is speaking).  4 and 8 are
descriptive statements.  6 is also descriptive (giving us Harry's
status during the speech and telling us that Pettigrew is squeaking in
the background) and takes place while the rest of the action is going
on.  The only actual "action" that happens in this whole span comes
from 1 and 3.  I doubt that it took Lupin very long to brush the hair
out of his eyes, and it says that he only looked thoughtful for a
"moment."  As for number 1, even if everyone in the room looked at the
door dumbstruck for 5 minutes, this entire scene still wouldn't be
*close* to an hour long.

When I said to act it out, I'm wasn't joking- I grabbed a couple girls
from next door and blocked it out (even though most of it was spent
standing around, just like in the scene).  It took 7 1/2 minutes, and
that included somebody walking by and asking what in the world we were
doing.

And the kids *were* in danger.  They were put in a very dangerous
position by Lupin himself.  Think about it:  Snape goes to give Lupin
his goblet of potion (which he needs to avoid turning into a dangerous
werewolf), but Lupin is missing.  Snape sees that Lupin has gone to
his old childhood hangout.  Snape enters the room to see Lupin with a
*convicted murderer* who is his childhood buddy.  Snape knows that
Sirius has been entering the castle and doing very
convicted!murderer-like things like slashing a child's bedcurtains
while standing over him with a knife.  Snape then finds out that
Sirius has accomplished this by using his Animagus form, information
that Lupin has kept all to himself.  We see things from Harry's point
of view in the books, but from Snape's point of view, things look
different, and Lupin and Sirius look very, very guilty.  (And again,
the kids were in definite danger).

> > Christina:
> > 
> > As Colebiancardi said, Snape is not dead-set on bringing Sirius
> > directly to the Dementors.  He expresses a good deal of fairness 
> > in the "Two more for Azkaban" and "Give me a reason" comments.  As
> > a matter of fact, I'd say that Snape's actions are more merciful 
> > than Lupins and Sirius's.  Snape might *threaten* to give Sirius 
> > to the dementors directly, but he clearly mentions handing him 
> > (and Lupin) over to the authorities first.  
> 
> a_svirn:
> 
> I wouldn't call it "fairness", myself. Wherein do you see fairness? 
> Yes, he did at first considered bringing them to Fudge, but he  
> changed his mind as soon as he realised that it would give Sirius 
> chance to clear his name. You think it's fair? I wonder.

Christina:

The fact that Snape suggests sending Sirius and Lupin to Azkaban *at
all* suggests to me a sense of justice.  Snape asking Sirius to give
him a reason suggests to me a sense of law and order.  Why does Snape
need a reason?  If Snape really wanted to shut Sirius up *that* badly,
why didn't he dispel with the pleasantries and get on with it?  He
didn't even need to get outside- a well-placed AK would have done the
trick ("It was horrible, Minister, Black just lunged toward Potter; he
would have certainly died, sir, had I not stepped in").  And if
noAK!Snape is your flavor, what about something a bit milder, like
Sectumsempra?  Snape could have then "modified" Harry, Ron, and
Hermione's memories, and nobody would have been the wiser.  That would
have been the quickest way of shutting everybody up.

To be honest, I *highly* doubt Snape would have been able to get
Sirius back to the castle even if he wanted to.  Sirius had barely
been outside when "at least a *hundred*" dementors converged on him.

> > Christina:
> What to Lupin and Sirius do when they
> > are in the exact same situation?
> 
> a_svirn:
> The fact that Sirius and Lupin were bent on revenge does not mean 
> that Snape was a Sheltered Innocence Personified. The only innocent 
> persons in the Shack were Harry, Ron and Hermione
>

Christina:

Nowhere have I said that I think that Snape is pure as the morning. 
He *couldn't* purposefully sic the dementors on Sirius- Snape might
hate Sirius, but he's not stupid (he is a Slytherin, after all...self
preservation is highly prioritized).  Snape wasn't going to give in to
hatred when he could return Sirius to Fudge- look at the praise he
gets!  Look at the medal he is offered!  He even gets to whisper a bit
in Fudges's ear about how much everyone has been spoiling Harry. 
Sirius Black is still going to get his soul sucked out.  It's
Christmas morning in Snapeland.

One of your original points was that Snape's hatred of Sirius isn't
enough to explain why he wanted him finished with so quickly (and why
he ignored Sirius's pleadings to consider him innocent), so you
hypothesized that Snape must have known all along about Pettigrew.  My
central point is that, if you read the end of PoA from *Snape's* point
of view, his actions are extremely reasonable and understandable. 
There is no reason for Snape to doubt his beliefs.  I'm not talking
about innocence and guilt- I am saying that his actions make sense and
are even less extreme than the actions of Lupin and Sirius when faced
with the exact same situation.

Christina