Snape in the Shrieking Shack WAS: Re: Are appearances important to Snape?

[maryh10000]

No: HPFGUIDX 142296

> > > Christina:
> > > 
> > > A good *hour*?  Snape enters on page 352 (US Hardcover) and 
> > > reveals himself on page 357.  That's five pages.  Act it out; 
> > > Snape was listening to Lupin for less than 10 minutes.  
> > 
> > a_svirn:
> > Surely not? You probably can read it in ten or even less 
minutes, 
> > but acting it out? Why, only listening to the cricked door would 
> > take a couple of minutes. And even if it was less than an hour 
it 
> > was still quite enough to realise that the kids were not in any 
> > danger from Sirius and Lupin. 
>
Christina:
<snip very good timeline>
> Snape enters the room to see Lupin with a
> *convicted murderer* who is his childhood buddy.  Snape knows that
> Sirius has been entering the castle and doing very
> convicted!murderer-like things like slashing a child's bedcurtains
> while standing over him with a knife.  Snape then finds out that
> Sirius has accomplished this by using his Animagus form,information
> that Lupin has kept all to himself.  We see things from Harry's 
point
> of view in the books, but from Snape's point of view, things look
> different, and Lupin and Sirius look very, very guilty.  (And 
again,
> the kids were in definite danger).
<snip>


Maryh:
I would like to point out that the kids were in very definite danger 
from everybody's point of view. It's that time of the month, Lupin 
is a werewolf, and he hasn't taken his meds. Clearly, being in 
moonlight isn't the only thing that causes the transformation 
(although it is played to dramatic effect in the book and the movie: 
Lupin changes when the clouds part to bathe him in moonlight) -- or 
the whole Shrieking Shack setup would be unnecessary. All Lupin 
would have to do is stay out of the moonlight.

I like Lupin a lot - he's one of my favorite characters - but he is 
negligent to the point of criminality here. I think that's part of 
the reason he doesn't get quite so upset about being "outed" by 
Snape. Lupin's FIRST priority should have been getting the kids out 
of there and out of danger before he changed. If that meant knocking 
Sirius out, and either leaving him or bringing him back with them, 
he should have done it.

Sirius, of course, should have thought of the same thing, but then, 
he's Sirius.

Snape has to get those kids out of there fast. There really is no 
time to discuss the evidence about Sirius.

As for the time involved, either Snape really was in a hurry 
(whether to shut Sirius up, or save the kids, or both) and the whole 
scene took much less than hour, or Snape wasn't really in a hurry. I 
don't see how you can have it both ways.

As for what Snape says, he was an idiot to mention handing Sirius 
over to the dementors, whether he planned to or not. (And yes, I 
think he was perfectly capable of it; although he might have decided 
against it for the reasons Christina notes below.) He needed to get 
everyone out, and that statement wasn't exactly a good way to get 
everyone moving. But then, Snape's people skills are abysmal, and he 
doesn't like to miss an opportunity to gloat or crow when he thinks 
he has the upper hand.

I also think that in general we should always ignore what Snape says 
when he tells anyone about his motivations. Snape isn't telling - 
all we ever know are what he WANTS people to think his motivations 
are. IMO we can only judge Snape by his actions.

When you look at what Snape probably knows, and what he actually 
does, it looks like he is clearly trying to get EVERYONE out of 
there in one piece. If he could have counted on cooperation from the 
trio, I think he would have just stunned the two adults, left Lupin 
in the Shack to deal with later when he was no longer in his wolf 
form, and brought Sirius along. But he was probably afraid one of 
the kids would try to block any stunning or immobilizing curse he 
tried to throw, and get hit instead.

Of course, Pettigrew would have escaped, which he ended up doing 
anyway. But at least there wouldn't have been a werewolf loose on 
the grounds of Hogwarts. And the trio's actions put Sirius in more 
danger of having his soul sucked out by dementors than Snape's did. 
It was only the timeturner that prevented it.

Let's look at two versions of what might have happened if Snape 
hadn't shown up:

Version 1: Sirius convinces everybody of his innocence because 
Pettigrew is forced to reveal himself, they decide to take Pettigrew 
in, everyone steps out into the moonlight, Lupin transforms, 
Pettigrew escapes, Sirius almost gets his soul sucked out by 
dementors. In other words, exactly what DID happen anyway.

Version 2: Sirius convinces everybody of his innocence because 
Pettigrew is forced to reveal himself, they decide to take Pettigrew 
in, Lupin remembers "Whoops. I'm a werewolf, it's that time of the 
month, and I haven't taken my meds. I think I'll stay here, and you 
kids go on ahead with Sirius."

Actually, version 1 still seems more likely to me because Snape has 
actually reminded everyone that LUPIN DIDN'T TAKE THE POTION, and 
called him a werewolf several times, and everyone STILL forgot that 
maybe it wasn't a real good idea to hang around Lupin too long just 
now, or let him actually get into the moonlight.


> Christina:
> 
> Nowhere have I said that I think that Snape is pure as the 
morning. 
> He *couldn't* purposefully sic the dementors on Sirius- Snape might
> hate Sirius, but he's not stupid (he is a Slytherin, after 
all...self
> preservation is highly prioritized).  Snape wasn't going to give 
in to
> hatred when he could return Sirius to Fudge- look at the praise he
> gets!  Look at the medal he is offered!  He even gets to whisper a 
bit
> in Fudges's ear about how much everyone has been spoiling Harry. 
> Sirius Black is still going to get his soul sucked out.  It's
> Christmas morning in Snapeland.

"Christmas morning in Snapeland." That made me chuckle! And Snape 
almost always sublimates hatred to the greater good of Snape. 

In all of my analysis above, nothing implies that Snape is a 
particularly nice person, or even necessarily rules out Snape having 
been a loyal DE during LV's last time in power. He had plenty of 
other motivation to save the kids. One can do the right thing for 
very non-altruistic reasons.

Maryh.