Draco's culpability (Was: My doubts about Snape being Evil)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 139380

> >>Betsy Hp:
> > <snip> 
> > For one thing, we don't know if Draco actually *is* a Death     
> > Eater.  

> >>a_svirn:
> Yes, we know this. We might not know for sure whether or not he   
> has the Mark yet, but what does that matter?

Betsy Hp:
Erm... Because it's the mark of a *Death Eater*?  Or at least, I'm 
working with the definition of a Death Eater being one who has 
joined Voldemort's side and bares Voldemort's mark.  That's the one 
the books seem to have provided.  If we go with your definition as 
someone who thinks Voldemort is cool and likes Voldemort's 
philosophy, I would say that once Christmas is over Draco is 
definitely *not* a Death Eater.

But, for the sake of this discussion I think it makes more sense to 
follow what the books say.

> >>a_svirn:
> <snip>
> Most importantly, he pledged himself to his cause and carries 
> Voldemorte's orders out diligently. What else could the Dark Lord 
> wish in his servant? 

Betsy Hp:
Willingness?  Seriously, pretend you're an evil megalomaniac. Who'd 
you rather have on your side: a boy whose family you have to 
threaten in order to get him to do as you say, or someone who's 
willing to kill their family to help achieve your goals?

> >>Betsy Hp: 
> > But for another, we know that Draco was selected for a suicide   
> > mission he was expected to fail.
> > <snip>
> > The words used here ("granted" "duty" "chance") speak to an 
> > assignment, IMO.

> >>a_svirn:
> Yes, of course it is an assignment. But I don't quite see what his 
> receiving orders from Voldemort has to do with the fact that he's 
> joined on his own volition. After all, that's what servants do: 
> receive orders, try to please their masters and get punished if   
> they don't. And in HBP that Draco made it clear he was quite keen 
> to join, after which, yes, he got his first glorious assignment.

Betsy Hp:
Okay then, prove to me that Draco approached Voldemort.  I've been 
asking for canon for a while now, and none has been forthcoming.  
But there's plenty of canon showing that Draco was assigned this 
task by Voldemort.  It was Voldemort's choice, not Draco's and 
everything in the text points to that.  At least, as far as 
everything I've found.

> >>Alla:
> Moreover JKR in the interview specifically stated that Draco IS a
> Death Eater.
> <snip of interview>

Betsy Hp:
Yeah, and let me add that the interviews really don't count for me.  
For one thing, they can be interperted in many different ways.  (ie 
Draco was *preparing* himself to become a Death Eater by shutting 
down compassion, however once he got on the road to becoming one he 
realized he couldn't shut his compassion down so completely.)  For 
another, if she can't say it in the books, than she ain't saying it.

> >>Pheonixgod:
> And the fact that it was most likely his sweet auntie Bella who   
> taught him occulomency means she knows his mind better than anyone 
> else. If she describes him as eager and excited I am going to take 
> her at her word. He ain't good enough to hid what he's really     
> feeling from her.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I don't doubt that Draco was eager and excited when first presented 
with his task.  The Order shamed his family and made his mama cry.  
He's obligated to exact some vengence. (Plus, we know that Draco, 
like Harry, hates being on the outside of things.)  However, by 
Christmas time, at the latest, the vengence deal starts to sour for 
him.  Voldemort has to twist the screws to get Draco to act.  (And 
Draco's moral sense is strong enough that even with the pressure 
he's under he cannot bring himself to kill -- the biggest proof that 
he's no Death Eater that can be given, IMO.)

Though I'd point out that when Bellatrix describes Draco as excited, 
the assignment has just been given.  I'm betting the training kicked 
in *after* Spinners End.  
  
> >> Betsy Hp:
> > It was *never* Draco's choice, if he's even a Death Eater at     
> > all. There were also several comments made about Draco's age.    
> > He's too young (at sixteen) to make the decision to become a    
> > Death Eater.
 
> >>a_svirn:
> In principle, yes, he's too young to make the choice. The fact 
> remains, however that he did or there would have been no DE on 
> Hogwarts grounds.

Betsy Hp:
Well, no.  The fact remains that Draco was *used* by Voldemort to 
get Voldemort's *actual* Death Eaters onto Hogwarts grounds.  Or, do 
you catagorize Madame Rosmerta as a Death Eater?  After all, she 
gave Draco some important assists.  And if you point out that she 
was under an Imperious, may I point out that Draco's mother *had a 
gun to her head*?

> >>Phoenixgod:
> Ultimately I think JKR is going to redeem Draco even though I     
> think she probably shouldn't. He doesn't deserve it and I think   
> there needs to be some contempory of Harry who well and            
> irrevocably falls to the dark. I want Draco to be this student.
> Though I would settle for Ginny...
> Man, I hate that girl :)

Betsy Hp:
Oh yes, I'm pretty sure Draco's one of the good guys now.  I'm even 
fairly confident he'll live through book 7.  The poor kid has had 
his face smeared into the ground so many, many, times (by enemies, 
teachers and family) that I was grateful to see him finally given a 
little dignity.

But since we're voting for "irrevocably evil" students here, let me 
throw in my vote for one of the twins.  God, I'd love it if one of 
those little monsters was actually *seen* as a little monster. 

Betsy Hp