Draco's culpability (Was: My doubts about Snape being Evil)

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 139389


> Betsy Hp:
> Erm... Because it's the mark of a *Death Eater*?  Or at least, I'm 
> working with the definition of a Death Eater being one who has 
> joined Voldemort's side and bares Voldemort's mark.  That's the 
one 
> the books seem to have provided.  If we go with your definition as 
> someone who thinks Voldemort is cool and likes Voldemort's 
> philosophy, I would say that once Christmas is over Draco is 
> definitely *not* a Death Eater.

a_svirn:

For one thing, the *snippet* of my original post you quoted cannot 
even remotely be called a definition.  (Definition followed right 
after where you snipped.) Nor do I remember any such *definitions* 
in the books. Harry first learns about DE in the World Cap aftermath 
where they are termed (by Bill) as "followers and supporters of Lord 
Voldemort". Vague and noncommiting . Voldemort himself mockingly 
calls them "my true family" apparently quibbling on the Latin sense 
of the word: `household dependants', `servants'. (The "family" 
greeted him grovelling and hailing him as "Master".) Granted he did 
say (again mockingly) that they are "still united under the Dark 
Mark", meaning "under my banner". But it is *his* symbol, not 
theirs. 

I would agree however that DE is someone who joined Voldemorte's 
side. Like Draco did. 


> 
> Betsy Hp:
<snip>  Seriously, pretend you're an evil megalomaniac. Who'd 
> you rather have on your side: a boy whose family you have to 
> threaten in order to get him to do as you say, or someone who's 
> willing to kill their family to help achieve your goals?

a_svirn:

You know, Betsy, while I admire your passionate defence of 
Slytherins and even agree with you on the number of points, I must 
say that personal appeals like this cannot be considered as a strong 
argument. I don't particularly want to imagine myself a 
megalomaniac. I do, however, agree with you that we should follow 
what the books say. And they say that this particular megalomaniac 
doesn't care much about loyalty. He values usefulness. That's why he 
keeps Wormtail, and even rewards him knowing all well that he is not 
feeling like a happy bunny on Voldemort's service and that his 
Master disgusts him. That's why he promotes his "slippery friend" 
Lucius over faithful Bellatrix  (contrary to his own promises about 
honouring the Lestranges above all others). Certainly Snape didn't 
miss the opportunity to point it out to Bellatrix in "Snipper's End" 
dismissing her years in Azkaban as a "fine, but useless gesture". 
And last but not the least, that's why Snape himself despite his 
dubious loyalty seems to be a current favourite.  
And Voldemort doesn't have to choose between boy who has a family to 
threaten and, say, his aunt who would gladly sacrifice her family. 
He has both. 




> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Okay then, prove to me that Draco approached Voldemort.  I've been 
> asking for canon for a while now, and none has been forthcoming.  
> But there's plenty of canon showing that Draco was assigned this 
> task by Voldemort.  It was Voldemort's choice, not Draco's and 
> everything in the text points to that.  At least, as far as 
> everything I've found.

a_svirn:

I don't think that Draco approached Voldemort. The very notion is 
ridiculous: how can one do it, send an application? The DE "family" 
functions as a sort of a secret society, and novices are likely to 
be carefully selected and then "approached". So no, I can't provide 
you with "canon". Just like I cannot provide you with canon on the 
subject of Lucius, Snape, Bellatrix, Crabbe etc approaching 
Voldemort. They all likely to have been approached at some point 
and "invited" to join. Of course, it is not the sort of invitation 
you can easily refuse. But it is true not only for Draco but for 
every DE, expect maybe from the very first ones, who probably didn't 
realised from the start what they were getting themselves into.

>
> 
> Betsy Hp:
<snip>  The fact remains that Draco was *used* by Voldemort to 
> get Voldemort's *actual* Death Eaters onto Hogwarts grounds.  Or, 
do 
> you catagorize Madame Rosmerta as a Death Eater?  After all, she 
> gave Draco some important assists.  And if you point out that she 
> was under an Imperious, may I point out that Draco's mother *had a 
> gun to her head*?
> 
>
a_svirn:

Do suggest that Draco was under the Imperius? If he was I take my 
words back. Yet I doubt that you can "provide canon" to prove it.