[HPforGrownups] Re: Sirius' declaration of loyalty in the Shrieking Shack

[Magda Grantwich]

No: HPFGUIDX 139586

> Alla:
> 
> This is the moment where I need clarification. You agree that
> Sirius 
> was sincere, right? He would had been died for Peter, if asked.
> 
> Could you tell me what are you objecting to? Just to the wording? 
> [SNIP]
> And honestly I find Sirius attitude towards friendship to be  the 
> one which makes whole  lot of sense to me, especially considering 
> the  experiences I had while growing up.


If you find someone in this world in your lifetime who you would die
for and who would die for you, congratulations, you are extremely
fortunate.  Most people are not strong enough for such drastic
commitments, and the history books are full of incidents of people
betraying their loved ones because of fear for themselves.  Sirius
had one such person in his life: James.  

What I am objecting to is the over-the-topness of a declaration like
"you should have died for us like we would have died for you".  If
you're going to make that kind of statement about anyone, you'd
better have thought long and hard about that person, seriously
considered their weak points, their flaws, their blind spots,
everything about that person that might cause them to let you down in
the worst possible way at the worst possible time.  Not just because
you slept in the same dorm for seven years, gave each other dumb
nicknames and did pranks together.  

Sirius didn't know Peter very well - obviously, and the post-GH
fiasco events prove it.  But there are strong hints that Sirius
should have known that using Peter as an SK wasn't a good idea.  In
the Pensieve incident, Peter is careful to be behind the other
Marauders when he watches "hungrily" their humilation of Snape.  His
sycophantish exhuberance strikes even Harry - who can be quite
unobservant - as more than slightly whack.  

And earlier Sirius slapped Peter down ruthlessly and apparently
doesn't regard him with much respect.  How on earth did he then
decide that he could trust Peter with his own - or James' and Lily's
and Harry's - life?  A guy who only a few years earlier was almost
"wetting his pants" over James' playing with the snitch?

Even if Peter wasn't a traitor - even if he was just the weakest
Marauder, "talentless" as Sirius puts it - then trusting him with
anyone's life was beyond stupid.  A chain is only as strong as its
weakest link; you don't just give it one tug and think you've
evaluated the risks properly.

> Alla:
> 
> Hmmm, post HBP, I would argue that this declaration of Sirius may 
> come back with the vengeance in book 7. Consider - the sincerity of
> Sirius declaration may hint at the fact that Marauders' friendship 
> WAS genuine in many aspects despite people putting so much emphasis
> on James and Sirius remarks towards Peter in pensieve scene. I 
> suspect that was their way to make jokes and  that they did like 
> Peter as a friends,even if they may consider his magical skills to 
> be a bit weaker than  theirs.

One of the biggest myths of the series is the so-called "friendship"
between the four Marauders.  There was one strong friendship (James
and Sirius), and one close compansionship (James and Sirius and Remus
- imagine Lee Jordan's friendship with Fred and George), and one
tag-along cheering section (Peter; I think McGonagall nailed his
status in the group perfectly).  These were not four equals striding
shoulder-to-shoulder into the sunset; this was a very unequal social
arrangement between four dorm-mates.


> Are you completely discarding the idea that Peter may have regrets 
> sometimes that he abandoned the genuine friendship and sold his 
> friends to Voldemort?

Yes, I am.  Peter had no sincere feelings of friendship for any of
them.  He wanted to tag along with the Big Men on Campus and he was
prepared to be humiliated as the price for this privilege.  James and
Sirius missed it because they projected their own feelings onto
Peter.

 
> Maybe we will learn that to some extent Peter did share the 
> sentiment of Sirius' declaration and  that is why he would act the 
> way I am suspecting he may in book 7.

If Peter tries to help Harry in Book 7 it will be because he's
decided that Harry will prevail and he wants to get in on the ground
floor with the new BMOC.  And frankly, that's not a bad career
strategy because now that the Potters have been betrayed and the
re-birthing ceremony has been completed, Voldemort really has no use
for Peter anymore.  Peter is entirely expendable, and I'm sure Peter
is painfully aware of it.  Peter is not anxious to be back in
Voldemort's presence and that's why Snape taunts him in Chapter 2.

Peter is one of the most dangerous people in the series because he'll
do terrible things out of blind panic and he has no moral sensibility
at all.  Even the Malfoys have some family feeling for each other;
Peter would sacrifice anything to stay alive.

Magda


	
		
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