Sirius' declaration of loyalty in the Shrieking Shack

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 139637

Magda:
> If you find someone in this world in your lifetime who you would die
> for and who would die for you, congratulations, you are extremely
> fortunate.  Most people are not strong enough for such drastic
> commitments, and the history books are full of incidents of people
> betraying their loved ones because of fear for themselves.  Sirius
> had one such person in his life: James.  
> 
> What I am objecting to is the over-the-topness of a declaration like
> "you should have died for us like we would have died for you".  If
> you're going to make that kind of statement about anyone, you'd
> better have thought long and hard about that person, seriously
> considered their weak points, their flaws, their blind spots,
> everything about that person that might cause them to let you down 
> in the worst possible way at the worst possible time.  Not just 
> because you slept in the same dorm for seven years, gave each other 
> dumb nicknames and did pranks together. 


Valky:
I am not understanding you obviously, because by that very reasoning
Harry is a fool to do most of the things he does. Harry almost died
protecting the stone in PS/SS, and he would have died too if not for
Dumbledore, for the sake of a world of perfect strangers. He was
perfectly willing to, thats where he was coming from in lying there
with his hands clutching Quirrels face while the strain of holding and
Quirrels throttling very nearly killed him. He didn't let go or think
for his own life, and that is why he believed Sirius and felt those
words from Sirius in his heart. This guy wuld die for my Dad, for his
friends? Hey I would do that! I'd consider that the best thing I had
ever done. 

What I am saying is Harry understands it because he is the same. It
makes no sense to him to figure out first if your life is worth more
than the other persons, to Harry all life is worthy. Worrying about
details like who you're sacrificing for and why, is just deciding who
to kill, who you're going to let die. Saying you'd rather die than
hand someone else over in your stead is just the same as saying that
you don't want anyone to die, given the choice of dying or handing
over a friend you fight both on your own terms, if you die then you
die but *you* didn't kill anyone. 

The way I see it Sirius is saying that he'd go out fighting for any
friend, and James would do the same. Maybe its just all about what
Sirius thinks dying is. What you say above, doesn't fit into a
framework of how I think Sirius would percieve his own death. In what
you say I think your meaning is that death is something that you're
helpless against when it comes to take you, but I don't think Sirius
ever saw death this way. Sirius was into struggling for his life,
danger and risk. I think Sirius always saw himself fighting to the
last, fending off death til it took him, if it could. He was brave and
energetic, as far as he was concerned he wouldn't go out easily so
when his time came he'd be battling like a hero in its face, and if it
was in the name of his friends all the better. Thats what I think he
is saying in the Shrieking Shack. Rather than think long and hard
about why he was dying, I think Sirius thought long and hard about how
he would die.


Valky