Sirius' declaration of loyalty in the Shrieking Shack

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 139644

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Magda Grantwich 

> What I am objecting to is the over-the-topness of a declaration like
> "you should have died for us like we would have died for you".  If
> you're going to make that kind of statement about anyone, you'd
> better have thought long and hard about that person, seriously
> considered their weak points, their flaws, their blind spots,
> everything about that person that might cause them to let you down 
in
> the worst possible way at the worst possible time.  Not just because
> you slept in the same dorm for seven years, gave each other dumb
> nicknames and did pranks together.  

Brotherhood. Fraternity. Friendship. These are powerful concepts that 
have far more powerful hold over the male heart than you give credit 
for. I think you diminish the Marauders when you reduce them to just 
living together, giving each other stupid nicknames, and doing 
pranks. Soldiers form similar lifelong bonds in a matter of *months* 
thanks to boot camp. They do all the same things the marauders do 
together. To say that Sirius, James, Remus, and Peter couldn't have 
formed a bond that meant so much in seven years is just plain wrong. 
And it could have been further honed during the war after they 
graduated.

Furthermore, remember what Sirius' form was. A dog. a greater example 
of living and breathing loyalty you will never see. Dogs don't judge. 
They don't weigh outcomes. They just give their loyalty and love 
without a second thought. Sirius was the same way. The other 
marauders were his family. Unhesitatingly giving his life for them 
was totally in character and deeply moving in my opinion.
 
> Even if Peter wasn't a traitor - even if he was just the weakest
> Marauder, "talentless" as Sirius puts it - then trusting him with
> anyone's life was beyond stupid.  A chain is only as strong as its
> weakest link; you don't just give it one tug and think you've
> evaluated the risks properly.

I think you are wrong. With his animagus form, Peter could be 
virtually uncapturable. even if he isn't the greatest wizard, which 
I'm not sure the evidence bares out, his defensive and evasive 
abilities would be second to none.

> One of the biggest myths of the series is the so-called "friendship"
> between the four Marauders.  There was one strong friendship (James
> and Sirius), and one close compansionship (James and Sirius and 
Remus
> - imagine Lee Jordan's friendship with Fred and George), and one
> tag-along cheering section (Peter; I think McGonagall nailed his
> status in the group perfectly).  These were not four equals striding
> shoulder-to-shoulder into the sunset; this was a very unequal social
> arrangement between four dorm-mates.

I would argue the exact opposite. While they weren't equals, I think 
there is enough evidence of a strong friendship to counter the one 
scene we see in the pensieve.

We see the type of character you are talking about in Colin and 
Dennis creevy. Sure they are more harmless than Pettigrew but they 
are follower types attempting to orbit the BMOC. But Harry has never 
included them in any of his adventures. He doesn't use them to stroke 
his ego or get them to do things for him.

Contrast that with Pettigrew and James. Pettigrew was brought in on 
the inner circle. They helped him become an animagus, his voice is on 
the marauders map, he runs in the woods with Remus alongside them. 
That is far too much work just to keep a person around to stroke the 
old ego. Men and especially teenage boys are far too self centered to 
devote that much attention to someone they don't like all that much.

McG calls him a tag a long and a weak wizard but considering how 
little she knew about the Marauders private activities I am not 
giving her a whole lotta weight. I like her but she ain't exactly up 
to date when it comes to her students personal lives.

Likewise Sirius and Remus are probably closer than you give them 
credit for. He and James went to a lot of trouble to provide 
companionship for their friend. The way we've seen them interact in 
OOTP and POA shows me that their friendship was probably pretty 
strong until the war and suspicion tore them apart. they certainly 
managed to get much of it back pretty quickly.  
 
> Yes, I am.  Peter had no sincere feelings of friendship for any of
> them.  He wanted to tag along with the Big Men on Campus and he was
> prepared to be humiliated as the price for this privilege.  James 
and
> Sirius missed it because they projected their own feelings onto
> Peter.

I don't know. I think there is some evidence that Peter had been 
tortured and broken by Voldemort. It will be interesting to see what 
happens in book seven.

phoenixgod2000