Grindelwald taught Tom about making Horcruxes

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 139645

Valky:
> To take the algebraic language out of all I have just said (which I
> used mostly for my own benefit but I will leave in for the
> mathheads among us). Toms fear of Dumbledore goes back to his
> childhood, were he saw, among other things, Dumbledore defeating
> Grindelwald. 
 
> Tom saw Dumbledore manage a lot of things and, of them, defeating
> the Dark Wizard was not the least, so if we shuffle it to the 
> front of the list of things Dumbledore did that scared Tom, where
> it could equally belong, it looks the same as Voldemort being
> afraid that Dumbledore can destroy an immortal Wizard. 

Jen: This is a good point, and thank you for giving it to us without 
the algebra ;). One or several things must have happened to turn 
Dumbledore into the "only one he ever feared" because at least up to 
age 16, text doesn't give us anything to show Riddle *feared* 
Dumbledore so much as avoided him.

Eleven year-old Riddle expressed 'shock and rage' at the burning 
wardrobe, but no fear. He then went on to reject Dumbledore's offer 
of help in Diagon Alley, and more or less avoided him once he got to 
Hogwarts. Well, except he must have had Transfiguration with him and 
done well, given his status as an excellent student.

Now, on to 16-year old Memory!Riddle. Tom sounded more annoyed than 
fearful of Dumbledore when he told Harry: "Well, he certainly kept 
an annoyingly close watch on me after Hagrid was expelled," said 
Riddle carelessly..." (chap. 17, p. 312, Scholastic). Carelessly. 
Not something that bothered Riddle, to have Dumbledore watching him, 
except he was unable to open the Chamber again.

When Voldemort visited Hogwarts seeking the DADA job, he appeared to 
want to treat Dumbledore as an equal, but DD subtly reminded him "I 
am watching you." Dumbledore was very careful to call Voldemort by 
his hated, common name of Tom, and to mention the Death Eaters 
waiting at the Hog's Head. Then Dumbledore struck another blow--"I 
have friends watching you as well" with his off-hand comment about 
being friendly with the bartender at HH. All of this was a 
successful power play on Dumbledore's part: "Not only am I here to 
remind you that at least one person in the world remembers you are 
really Tom Riddle, but I am also following your every move and will 
be watching you just like I did at Hogwarts."

Now, if Voldemort wasn't fearful up to that point, he must have 
started to wonder--how much does Dumbledore *know*?

Valky:
> Leaving us with only one thing left to find - What made Grindelwald
> immortal. We only have canon on one method of pursuing immortality 
> solet's call it that, Horcruxes. 
> 
> Hence Dumbledore's prescence in the mix makes it very likely that
> Grindelwald had a Horcrux. And we establish grounds for a further
> step into speculating how Grindelwald was involved, if at all, in
> Toms plans.

Jen: I feel almost 100% sure Dumbledore was referring to Grindelwald 
when he made the statement: "As far as I know--as far, I am sure, as 
Voldemort knew--no wizard had ever done more than tear his soul in 
two." (Chap. 23, p. 500 Scholastic). 

Then we have the fact DD banned information about Horcruxes, too. 
The present-day student population doesn't seem to be discussing why 
Voldemort returned from vapor. No mention of Horcruxes, or a run on 
the restricted secion to figure this out! There must have been a 
reason Horcruxes were specifically banned during that time period. 
Like Valky said, maybe there was an awareness of why Grindelwald was 
difficult to defeat, or perhaps Tom himself started the discussion 
of Horcruxes among friends, but either way, Dumbledore attempted to 
nip it in the bud.

Valky: 
> Personally I think it is likely that Tom did seek out Grindelwald
> to find the secret of creating a Horcrux. But I do doubt that he
> actually learned first hand from Grindelwald how it was done. I
> think he may have learned more about the mechanics of it in the
> Chamber of Secrets, from Salazar. And possibly experimented with 
> it before he even knew what it was, producing the Diary.

Jen: The time-frame for Tom to study directly with GW would have 
been short. From the time he talked to Slughorn, during the sixth-
year, until GW's defeat in 1945 which came during or right after 
Tom's seventh year, there was only about a year span. I tend toward 
the idea Tom hadn't yet made the diary into a Horxcrux when he 
talked to Slughorn, but *had* put his memory into it (that seemed 
like two different processes to me, the way DD described the diary 
as a memory and a weapon).

But it does seem Tom was either in the process of making a Horcrux, 
or had already sealed one, when DD defeated Grindelwald. That 
probably did stike fear in Voldemort's heart and provided even more 
incentive to pursue his seven-part Horcrux plan. 

Jen