Sirius' declaration of loyalty in the Shrieking Shack

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 139708

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

<snip>

> Betsy Hp:
> And really, his statement *is* an exaggeration, IMO. 

As JKR disagrees with you, I'm going to take her exegesis on the 
character over yours. :)

> Sirius and James weren't willing to die for Peter.  They put him 
> into the incredibly dangerous position of Secret Keeper, where 
> Peter would be risking *his* life for James. 

Don't forget Lily; she has to play into this whole SK scenario as 
well.  (And the baby, but that's perhaps beside the point.)  
Actually, it's not so beside the point: it's not only risking his 
life for James, it's also for Lily (another valued Order member), and 
for the baby who they must know that Voldemort is hunting.  We're 
lacking information here (of course), but I don't see this going down 
without Lily's input, and I don't see a situation of great duress 
being put onto Peter.  But now I'm interested in the angle of Peter 
as having an obligation not so much to Lily and James as old friends, 
but as Order members and valuable, targeted ones.  Hmmm...

> Betsy Hp:
> Except we know that their bond wasn't that tight, in the end.  The 
> Marauders fractured before Peter became the Secret Keeper. 

<snip>

> Yes, much of this is based on the one scene JKR gives us, but it's 
> a fair judgment to make, IMO.  We're not anthropologists stumbling 
> upon the Marauders and needing furthur proof that this is a typical 
> day.  JKR deliberately gives us this scene to give us an idea of 
> what their characters were like.

I don't think that's quite how it is, because of my read on the 
function of that scene.  It's placed where it is and composed as it 
is, to disrupt some of our assumptions and constructions to a maximal 
degree.  Most of us felt rather disoriented from what we'd thought, 
after that scene.  Of course, we've learned things which complicated 
other aspects of the scenario in book 6, to put it mildly.  Is it too 
much to suspect the pendulum swings even more in the other 
direction?  Clean extrapolation from one scene is very dangerous--it 
lets us hang ourselves with our own rope.

As well, your extrapolation from that scene requires that they remain 
basically the same from 15 to 21 or so, or maybe even earlier.  
Characters can't change, develop, show more depths?  It's one clean 
line from childhood into adulthood, and all actions can be completely 
linked back to the pettinesses of youth?  Draco's *really* doomed, 
then. :)

<snip>

> Betsy Hp:
> And yet, Sirius had no problem suspecting Lupin.

No problem?  Canon?

> So, again, the depth of the Marauder bond is brought into question, 
> IMO.  Though, to be fair to the Marauders, everyone was suspecting 
> everyone.  That was Voldemort's special little gift.

The wartime situation put the screws onto everyone, so it seems.  And 
that's where my read differs so dramatically.  There must have been 
some strong linkage to bring everyone into the Order.  Dumbledore 
must have vetted and vouched for all of them, and must have been 
fooled along with them, unless you want to whip out one of the 'DD 
knows all!' conspiracy theories.  Isn't it nice and thematic for the 
friendship to have been damaged by the stress of war, twisting it, 
especially Peter, into distorted figures?  It's very foreshadowed 
that Peter has some role to play, and it's both thematic and BANG-y 
if there is a partial moral recuperation for him.

Ultimately, I think JKR is really rather sentimental about many 
things, and the friendship of the Marauders may well be one of them.  
A deep and genuine friendship, the war breaking holes into it via 
everyone's character flaws, but the fundamental qualities still held 
onto by at least one member--I can see that.

-Nora notes that the dynamics of the Trio are wildly different from 
those of the Marauders, but also notes that anyone who is shocked by 
this hasn't observed groups of guys in their native habitat