OFH!Snape scenario (Long)

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 139767

Saraquel replies to Houyhnmhnm, Marianne and Valky:

houyhnmhnm wrote:
>Snape has an almost prissy regard for lawn order. He's still 
>carrying an enormous chip around on his shoulder over the fact that 
>the
>rule-breaking, DD's trust-betraying Marauders were the fair-haired
>sons, while School Boy Severus (who kept his promise to DD not to
>reveal Lupin's secret for somewhere around 18 years) is treated like
>the bastard step child. His biggest gripe about Harry is the way
>Harry is allowed to get away with rule breaking.

Saraquel:
When I first read this, I thought no, because I was thinking about 
the creative Snape who breaks the rules in the potions book and is 
constantly looking for new ways to do things, and the spy!Snape, who 
has made up his own rule book.  But then I reread it and saw what 
you were talking about, and absolutely agreed with you.  Which is of 
course a seeming contradiction.  But thinking about that seems to 
get to the heart of Snape.  

Yes I agree, he absolutely loves lawn order (I knew what you were 
talking about, I used to work in mental elf!) On the inside is 
someone who wants to write the rules – who does write the rules for 
himself and then lives by them because he has created them and knows 
that they work. An intensely logical man, who plots his way through 
life.  He has enormous respect for rules and I think that is what 
really p****s him off re the Marauders – he follows the rules (if we 
are to believe his lack of punishment record), but doesn't get any 
attention for that from anyone, it doesn't bring him the respect 
that he thinks he deserves.

I'm not totally sold on an OFH!Snape – I did it as an exercise to 
see if it would work, as I'm not that keen on ESG! or ESE!Snape.  
But his wanting to follow his own rulebook, rather than the rulebook 
laid out by DD or LV, does seem to fit.

Houynhmhnm wrote:
>So, Snape could kill for revenge (or thought he could--we don't know
>for sure) or to bring about a New World Order. But killing for fun?
>("Half the Muggle killings back when You-Know-Who was in power were
>done for fun".) I think it would disgust him. Marauders cubed.

Saraquel:
I absolutely agree with you here, I think Snape would be repulsed by 
killing for fun. I think he would kill for a world order that 
favoured his aims.  If Bella is to be believed, and from the 
evidence in the book, Snape stays away from killing as much as he 
can.  We don't know if DD was the first person he has ever used an 
AK on (speculation aside, I'm taking it at face value here.) I think 
he may have killed in his DE days, but perhaps only once.  This 
could be part of his remorse – just speculating


Houynhmnhmn wrote:
>The answer to the Snape question hinges on Snape's behavior with
>regard to the prophecy, IMO. <snip> But what is the effect of 
>Snape's behavior WRT the prophecy on OFH!Snape? It seems that OFH!
>Snape would be *very* curious to know the full contents of the 
>prophecy, curious enough, I would think, even to help LV obtain it.

Marianne wrote:
>I'm not so sure. OFH!Snape might be curious to know the prophecy,
>but delivering it, or assisting Vmort in getting it, may compromise
>his position straddling both sides. I think Snape may suspect, if
>not know, that DD knows what the prophecy says. Why not delay as
>long as possible and see how things pan out? Snape's not the one
>charged with getting the prophecy out - that's Lucius' task. OFH!
>Snape might even suspect that the whole thing could blow up in
>Lucius' face, and if it does, it makes Snape's position with Vmort
>even more secure.

Saraquel:
I like Marianne's take on this, and tend to agree.  What Snape 
knows, is that Harry is the one with the power to vanquish 
Voldemort. Maybe he thinks that if he can find out what the power 
is, he can work out the rest of prophecy.  Although, the delay in 
telling the Order to get to the MOM, could be Snape giving the DEs a 
chance to get the prophecy, without compromising himself with either 
side.  He would then bank on finding out about the prophecy from 
whichever side finally got Harry after he had lifted the prophecy. 
Or possibly, hoping that Harry heard the prophecy himself, he could 
then use a little legilimency, knowing Harry's ineptitude at 
occlumency, to find out what it said.

> Saraquel wrote:
>
> > Through Harry's action of saving Snape, Snape
> > will realise the power of love that DD was talking
> > about, but Snape never saw for himself. When he
> > sees it, he will realise why Harry is special and
> > go through his own process of realisation.

Marianne wrote:
>It's going to have to be a nifty piece of writing to carry that
>off. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but Snape has seemed so
>closed off from his emotions, other than when he flies into his
>occational rages, that I have a hard time seeing him have this sort
>of epiphany. I can't see him being at all happy about being saved by
>Harry, in any way, other than going though a long period of soul-
>searching afterward. 

Saraquel now:
I agree that it will take a nifty piece of writing to carry it off, 
but I do have faith in JKR that if she wants that to happen, she can 
pull it off.  This whole scenario is a result of following a 
Redeemed!Snape thread which has been obliquely confirmed by JKR.  
Sorry, I'm usually good on canon quotes but can never remember which 
JKR interview some nugget of information can be found in. 
Apparently, a long time ago someone asked her whether there was a 
redemptive theme where Snape was concerned, she said she was stunned 
and told them to read book 7. Hopefully, someone on the list is 
better than me and can provide a link.

Actually, I don't have a hard time seeing Snape going through an 
epiphany.  If he was confronted by the Power of Truth and Knowledge, 
he would accept it.  If what I have laid out in this scenario does 
reflect Snape's qualities, then desire for Truth is uppermost, his 
dearest ambition.  To see it revealed in all its awful beauty would 
certainly do something to him.  

When I said Harry saves Sanpe, I didn't mean in an ordinary way, 
like stunning someone who was attacking Snape. I meant that Harry, 
for the first time, and perhaps unknowingly, would connect with the 
power of love that DD has been talking about.  I think it could well 
come as as much a surprise for Harry as for Snape and it will be 
overwhelming for both of them.  It would then be clear to Snape, 
that he wasn't saved by Harry, but by the blinding light of 
Truth/Love.  I really do think that JKR wants to make a big bang 
about love in these books, as I think you know :-) 

Snape may hide his emotions, but that does not say that his emotions 
are shallow.  On the contrary, I think he feels very, very deeply 
and acutely, that is why he has to hide them.  Not for nothing does 
he call those who wear their heart on their sleeves – weak (OotP, 
when he is teaching Harry occlumency).  He has been bullied by his 
father (?) and then the marauders.  He knows how vulnerable showing 
any feeling can make you.  But all those feelings of intense hurt 
are dammed up inside him – break the dam with the power of love, and 
out they all come.

I think that Snape's redemption can happen instantly.  But how 
redeemed!Snape figures at the end of the book I'm not sure.

Marianne wrote:
>Marianne, who wishes to complement Saraquel on a description of OFH!
>Snape that rings true to my ears

Saraquel:
Thank you Marianne.  Although as I said above, I did it as an 
academic exercise but I do think it could work.  Although, it would 
seem that Snape would have to do a lot of explaining to the reader, 
in order for them follow his thinking and behaviour throughout the 
series.  Let's see what JKR has in store for us.

Now in reply to Valky, who was commenting on the thread discussed by 
Vivian and Catlady regarding Snape and Crouch!Moody using legilmency 
on each other, and sussing out, what was what – or rather, who was 
what. I used this to illustrate how OFH!Snape might respond. (Hope 
that's shortened the quote I would otherwise have to have put in!)

Valky wrote:
>To Crouch, I think, Snape is
>laying on the "DE ally, I am" act, thickly. I do believe that this
>passage indicates them being fully aware of each others underlying
>identities.

>Snape certainly isn't DD's man at this time, in that case.

Saraquel:
There is evidence that can be made for Crouch!Moody being suspicious 
that Snape or possibly Karkaroff is DD's man, but it happens way 
before the scene we are discussing.  I've always wondered why Crouch!
Moody insisted that Harry (and the other kids, but I think he was 
only concerned with Harry) should know what the Unforgiveable curses 
were and in particular how to throw it off the Imperius curse.  He 
was very insistent – he kept saying `You have to know" or words to 
that effect.  Why did Harry *have* to know?  It puzzled me because I 
thought that Crouch!Moody might well be in a position of wanting to 
put Harry under the Imperius curse, if things weren't going to 
plan.  The explanation I came up with for myself was that Crouch!
Moody thought he might need to use the Imperius in the Maze, which 
he did in the end, on the other contestants and didn't want Harry to 
accidentally get hit by it.

However, another one springs to mind in the light of this thread.  
The Imperius curse is a dark magic and would not be used by DD or 
anyone on his side, but Crouch!Moody knows that both Snape and 
Karkaroff were both death eaters and might use it on Harry to 
further their own ends.

That there is good canon evidence for suspecting the scene we have 
been discussing to be a case of, read between the legilimens lines, 
what we don't know is how long both of them have been doing this on 
each other.

I'm not sure where this takes us in terms of Snape's allegiances, 
but for me it has thrown some more light on why Crouch!Moody 
insisted on them learning the unforgiveables.

Valky wrote:
>IIRC when in the room Snape looks very long at his face in the foe
>glass. <snip>
>If Barty escapes, Snape will be turned in to Voldemort, if Barty is
>captured then Snape could as easily be turned in to Fudge and his
>ministry for whatever he has helped Bart to accomplish in the year.
>Barty is soul sucked by a dementor and I am inclined to believe that
>Snape managed to put wheels on that cart, for the sake of covering 
>his own ambiguous loyalties.

Saraquel:
Nice thinking Valky.

Thanks also to others for picking up on the RAB/Snape scenario.

Saraquel