Depth? Things to take on their face value (Was: Sirius' loyalty)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 139886

Nora: 
> Assuming that Snape *knows* every plan Dumbledore devised.  I
> submit  to you that we can't assume that, given the canonicity of
> things going on that we saw that Dumbledore probably didn't tell 
> Snape about.  (Unless, of course, he's lying to Harry about how 
> many people know all of the prophecy, or the horsepuckies.)
 
Jen: OK Nora, I exaggerated saying Snape would know *every* plan. 
JKR told us DD has no confidante, no equal--true. Saying Snape 
doesn't know every plan hardly negates the information he could take 
to Voldemort if he is truly serving him now.

Sometimes the simplest view is best and sometimes it merely closes 
off legitimate extrapolation and assumption based on the text at 
hand. For instance, we know for a fact Dumbledore and Harry are the 
only two people in the world who know the full prophecy. We do not 
know for a fact that Snape has no awareness of the Horcruxes. I've 
read and re-read the Horcrux chapter, please direct me to what I'm 
missing if DD told Harry in simple terms (as he spoke in the broom 
shed) that no one else knows about the Horcruxes. Instead we know 
this:

1) First what Pippin said: "Snape knows that Dumbledore injured his 
hand retrieving a gold ring with a black stone..."

2) The ring had a 'terrible curse [ ] upon it too. Had it not 
been...for my own prodigious skill, and for Professor Snape's timely 
action when I returned to Hogwarts, **desperately injured**, I might 
not have lived to tell the tale." (chap. 23, p. 503, Scholastic).

(I emphasized the part about being 'desperately injured' by a 
terrible curse because I don't think it's extrapolating much to say 
that Snape would have had to a) recognize the effects of a terrible 
curse and b) figure out the best way to save DD's life once he 
determined what the problem was. He wasn't able to shove a Bezoar 
down his throat in this instance. DD wouldn't have to tell Snape 
anything at all for Snape to figure out DD was a victim of dark 
magic. Now, whose dark magic would Dumbledore be willing to 
sacrifice himself for, if he is on a quest to help Harry defeat 
Voldemort?)

3) Hopefully I'm not assuming too much to say Snape was the one who 
passed the information to Dumbledore about Voldemort's fury when he 
discovered the diary was gone. That doesn't guarantee Snape knew it 
was a Horcrux, but it's another piece of the puzzle Snape has 
knowledge of.

> Pippin:
> .....he is just as capable as Scrimgeour of deducing that Harry
> was on top of the tower, and had accompanied Dumbledore on one of
> his mysterious disappearances.  Voldemort already knows that Harry
> destroyed the Diary. He would hardly need to be told more.
> 
> Snape knows that Dumbledore had a Pensieve and that it may still
> contain valuable memories, including the entire prophecy.
> 
> Snape knows that Ginny owes Harry her life and has been seen with
> him quite a bit lately.

Besides the list of things Pippin compiled, Snape knows:

1) Most of the members of the Order by name or sight.
2) Which professors are also Order members.
3) MOM employees who are Order members.
4) Skills various professors and Order members possess.
5) Layout of Hogwarts from his nighttime wanderings. Combine this 
with Voldemort who "had penetrated many more of [Hogwart's secrets] 
than most of the students who pass through this place, but [who] may 
have felt that there were still mysteries to unravel, stores of 
magic to tap." (chap. 20, p. 431, Scholastic).

Other information I'm daring to extrapolate about Snape's knowledge, 
information he might have collected if truly on Voldemort's side and 
which Voldemort might find useful:

1) Blood status and family connections of some of the professors and 
students.
2) Students who might be open to recrutiment as DE's.
3) At least some of DD's protections on Hogwarts and possible 
weaknesses.
4) Missions of at least a few of the Order members gathered at 
meetings.

I'm sure there's more. I'm not saying what JKR will do with all the 
information Snape possesses, it completely depends on his loyalty. 
I'm just pointing out some canon facts, some extrapoaltions from 
canon and the fact that Snape could provide Voldemort with quite a 
few juicy tidbits if he has taken a seat at Voldemort's side.

Jen