That darn Prophecy again.. Re: Thin air/Choices

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 140041

Cerwidwen:
> This is where I would, regretfully, slip into thinking Harry is a 
> horcrux, or else his scar.  Yes, the scar, given the choice.  
> Voldemort kills what he inhabits.  If Vapour!Mort was soul or bits
> of soul, then this all fits together.  

Jen: You and me both, the 'regretfully' part :). As much as I 
personally dislike the idea, the evidence keeps stacking up. 

Every argument I think of has a counter-argument. Like for instance, 
Dumbledore should have known. Well yes, he should have, but now we 
know he makes huge mistakes and what would be bigger than not 
recognizing Harry's scar might be a Horcrux? Being wrong about Snape 
would pale in comparison, and besides, the hero can't have 
everything handed to him on a silver platter; Harry is expected to 
figure out a few things on his own. After OOTP, Dumbledore would not 
allow his personal feelings and wishes for Harry cloud his judgement 
again. If he saw the possibility of a Horcrux in Harry, he would 
have said something. So he didn't.

JKR has set up the perfect position here. If Harry, or his scar, is 
somehow a Horcrux, she can explain why very easily since we know 
nothing about the process of making one. If she wants to continue 
with the storyline that the rebounded AK, never seen before in the 
WW, passed those powers to Harry and it has nothing to do with a 
Horcrux, well she can go that route as well. 

(Having said all that, I do have two little pieces of evidence that 
may support the idea Harry is not a Horcrux. Maybe. They come up at 
the end of this post).

Cerwidwen:
> I'm open to the idea that there is something other than a horcrux 
> sort of soul-piece that can be given by Voldemort, which can
> shield Harry from the sort of destruction Dumbledore suffered. If
> not a soul-piece, then something that the soul fragment within the
> horcrux, can recognize.  I do think that a horcrux can be made
> accidentally, and observation of such phenomena is what led to the
> more exacting rituals to make a horcrux proper.  If such a 
> phenomenon exists in Wizarding Nature, then perhaps it isn't as
> strong, nor as efficient, as the ritualized way.

Jen: It's hard to believe DD or even Slughorn wouldn't know about 
accidental Horcruxes if they exist, especially if there's a history 
of one being wedged in the skin (I'm extrapolating on your point 
here). Or Voldemort! Even Ollivander might be suspicious of the scar 
he's inspecting if there's any history at all of an accidental 
Horcrux. I think this would have to be a never-before-seen 
phenomenon like the rebounded AK.

(I'm not trying to discount what you're saying here either, because 
it does seem logical that the first person who discovered a Horcrux 
must have done so accidentally. I'm just saying it's hard to believe 
DD esp. wouldn't pick up on the connection between the scar and 
Horcrux making if there were any evidence of this happening before).

Ceridwen:
> Still, if this was accidental, a phenomenon of Nature rather than
> of will, it would be different than deliberately creating a 
> horcrux, or even deliberate possession.  Either is some form of
> possession, and would have killed Baby!Harry before long, if the
> soul-piece was embedded inside of him.  That's why, if Harry is
> any sort of horcrux, the soul-piece would be in his scar.  

Jen: From what we know of possession, I agree it's really unlikely 
the soul piece would be inside without any negative effects. Of 
course, JKR has a perfect out again---Lily's love protection has 
kept the soul piece from possessing Harry! 

Ceridwen:
> Harry addressing a deliberate horcrux would have the protection of
> a bit of Voldemort on his skin, denying entrance to the soul
> fragment in the horcrux, or at least tempering it to be more
> readily accepted, or even taking it into the outer skin instead of
> into the body at some cell or molecule level.  A 'power the Dark
> Lord knows not'. Yet, one which makes Harry equal to him in the
> treatment of LV's horcruxes.

Jen: This is such a compelling argument, but also the point where 
things break down for me re: Harrycrux. The idea of the face-value 
reading keeps coming up, and I do think JKR really means for the 
power the Dark Lord knows not to be love. 

In HBP, JKR makes it clear how utterly special Harry is because of 
the many ways he's been touched by evil and never succumbed to the 
temptation of the dark side. His soul is pure. He's even been given 
gifts a DE 'would kill for' and it changes him not at all. Now it's 
possible she could take this idea even further--"he's been touched 
by the most evil of all and is/has a Horcrux within him now and his 
soul is still untarnished," but that stretches her theme to the 
thinnest of limits--what, is Harry *perfect*, that he can even be 
untouched by a Horcrux? If so, Harry is becoming a product of all 
that's happening around him rather than a person in his own right. 
He's a product of Lily's sacrifice, Voldemort's evil deposit, and 
Dumbledore's Plan. There's not much of Harry left in there anymore. 
He's a kid who can play Quidditch and is exceptional at DADA--and 
even that last part might be a gift from Lily or unintended 
consequence of Voldemort's transfer of powers.

Ceridwen:
> Because I don't think Voldemort would be damaged by retrieving a 
> piece of his own soul from a horcrux, as Dumbledore was.  The soul-
> piece would recognize him as its owner.  And, it seems, it would 
> recognize, on some deep inner level, Harry as the same.  Even
> though its consciousness, as TR in CoS for an example, found out
> about Harry and knew that he wasn't the one who should be
> retrieving/releasing him.  That soul-piece couldn't harm Harry the
> way Dumbledore was harmed.  Because of *whatever it is* in the
> scar that identifies Harry with Voldemort.

Jen: Ok, my two little pieces of evidence. Actually three. 

1) Even though I personally love the idea Harry is gifted in 
destroying the Horcruxes in a way DD is not, the diary did not have 
any curses upon it the way the ring did. So we can't know that for 
sure yet.

2) Harry did not feel any affinity at all for the locket at 12 GP, 
if indeed it is a Horcrux, nor could he open it, same as the others 
present.

3) In the cave, DD said: "I think we must resign ourselves to the 
fact that they [Inferi] will, at some point, realize we're not Lord 
Voldemort." (chap. 26, p. 564) And they do!! I know this is pitiful 
little evidence, but I think if Harry is somehow recognized to have 
part of Voldemort in him, the Inferi would not bother him. 

Jen, possibly grasping at straws