Keep Harry Horcrux Free Challenge!

[msbeadsley]

No: HPFGUIDX 140194

<saraquel_omphale at y...> wrote:
> Ah, the expected riposte, which I admit has singed my hair, but I'm 
> still on my feet. This is the strongest counter argument to this 
> proposition, in my opinion.  But just because Lily's blood protects 
> Harry, it does not necessarily mean that he is a Horcrux.  Harry 
> needs protecting from a great many things. That DEs were active 
> after Voldemort's demise is clear from the attack on the 
> Longbottoms, and of course Harry definitely needs protection after 
> Voldemort has returned.

It wasn't my intent to imply that Lily's protection in any way implies
that Harry *is* a horcrux; but her protection more than adequately
explains how Harry could be one and yet not be drained or influenced
by the piece of soul he harbors.

> Saraquel:
> disconnection arguments, cannot be through a horcrux, which does 
> imply something other than that being involved.  And my argument
is, 
> if that is the case, why does Harry need to be a horcrux as well?

Harry being a horcrux is just one thing which might account for why
Legilimency works without eye contact between himself and Voldemort
and in spite of magical barriers which should prevent it. When added
to the rest of this debate, it carries some weight in the direction
that Harry is a horcrux. IMO.

> Sandy countered:
> So, if that repeated action made of Voldemort's soul something so 
> fragile and tattered that the sort of violent (house-flattening) 
> magic GH involved could make an accidental horcrux in, on, or of 
> Harry (and this is the theory I find most plausible), Dumbledore 
> might not guess it.
> 
> Saraquel responds:
> Now Sandy, such a slurr on Dumblemdore's powers of reasoning, 
> deduction and anticipation I cannot leave without a determined, and 
> well aimed jelly legs counter hex :-)

<Ducking!> 'Scuse me! The Ministry has rules about hexing Muggles, you
know! (Mebbe I is, and mebbe I isn't...but nobody said nuthin' ta me
'bout no wands in this challenge!)

<snip>
> this.  In my mind, he has either been through the scenario and 
> discounted it, or he has some very special reason for not telling 
> Harry.  IMO, he would have told Harry in the Horcrux chapter at the 
<snip>

In my mind, it is likelier that Dumbledore considered the possibility
and weighed what he saw as its likelihood against Harry's emotional
state and what could be done about it if it were true (IMO, not much).
You can argue that Dumbledore should have learned his lesson about
keeping information from Harry and then I can counter that Dumbledore
*was* indeed still keeping info from Harry: (1) why he really trusted
Snape and (2) the details around what happened to his hand. (The hand
story could have been intended to go along with a little talk about
how Harry just *might* be another, unintentional horcrux himself.) The
prophecy itself hit Harry very hard (harder than I'd have expected, to
be honest, all things considered) the year before with the knowledge
that he would have to kill or be killed. The notion that Harry himself
could be a horcrux and that his own death would have to be a part of
his final defeat of Voldemort is so much more devastating than the
comparatively benevolent terms of the prophecy that I can easily see
Dumbledore waiting for just the right moment to share that possibility
with Harry. But Dumbledore died before he got that right moment.

> A touch of my wand to my hat to you Sandy, BUT, Riddle had created 
> himself a body *before* he invited the Basilisk to the party and
IMO 
> a wizards powers probably reside in their bodies. I have already 

This argument just boggles my mind; I had no more considered this than
I'd pluck a chicken in preparation for making an omelet (for it
strikes me very much as a chicken/egg question). If the horcruxes are
all capable of re-embodying Voldemort entire, powers and all, with the
mere addition of "essence of young witch or wizard," then why bother
with unicorn blood, the PS/SS, or relying on Barty Jr. to produce
Harry? Why not just have Quirrell, as the first available warm body,
hunt up a horcrux and slip it under some young and careless witch or
wizard's pillow? We saw TMR pick up Harry's wand, which was a physical
act implying a body, sure...but he was remarkably reticent aside from
that. IMO. I guess I always assumed he was only somewhat there
physically and would need to do further magic before he was entirely
"back."

> Saraquel replies:
> Oh Sandy, thank goodness you're only *playing* devil's advocate
– 
> such slurs on DDs character are so painful to me :-) No, I think DD 
> would have bitten the bullet, he knew after OotP how foolish it was 
> for him to delay telling Harry.  Are you suggesting that he did not 
> learn by this mistake?  DD may make mistakes, but I would bet my 
> life, he always learns from them.

I don't see it as a slur on Dumbledore's character at all. ;-) He was
still compiling info on the horcruxes as of Harry's sixth year; for
him to have brought it up any earlier, when it probably seemed quite a
bit less likely, knowing how hard it would probably hit Harry, would
have been unconscionable, IMO.

> Well all in all, I think we have kept up a good solid defence of
the 
> Harry is *not* a horcrux theory.  And as JKR in no way indicates 
> explicitly that we should think of Harry as a horcrux, I think it
is 
> in the hands of the pro horcrux theorists to make the case why it
is 
> *necessary* for him to be one.

I am more convinced now that Harry is a horcrux <eg> than I was
before. I can accept previously unknown protective mother magic (PMM),
Harry's survival, Voldemort's vaporization, and even the flattening of
the house at GH. But for Harry to have part of Voldemort inside him
and have that be the result of yet another unqualified kind of, er,
incidental magic instead of being something that has been described to
us at length and fits all too well...well, that just strains my
disbelief outright. Yep, he's gotta be a horcrux. IMO.

Sandy aka msbeadsley