Sadistic Snape, Occlumency, etc

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 140258

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ellecain" <ellecain at y...> 
>
 >I would like to point this out to people arguing for the
> Sadistic!Snape thread. If he is as sadistic as you paint him, why 
> did he not enjoy this moment more?

He was in the middle of a pitched battle that needed attending to and 
gloating takes up too much time. Maybe because he was trying to keep 
his eye on the prize and his plans were nearing fruition or hell, 
maybe he really was working for Dumbledore and liked the old guy. 
Hell, just because he worked for DD doesn't mean he can't be a sadist 
to his students and Harry in particular. getting out his issues on 
inferiors with little ability to strike back seems like the sort of 
thing a petty sadist would engage in.
 
> Elyse: I like it. It sounds a bit confusing if you look at it from 
> the Snape was talking about James angle.
> But this could tie in nicely with Snape feeling he did
> not do enough to pay back James' life debt.

Or because James also called him a snivelling coward and he reacted 
instinctively to the insult.
 
> Incidentally I've always been surprised that Harry could break
> into Snape's mind during OOTP Occlumency lessons.
> I mean how come Snape can hold out on his memories from LV
> but someone like Harry who has *no* Legilimency power
> can break through? I think JKR messed up on that one.

My theory is that Harry piggybacked on the spell back into Snapes 
thoughts, bypassing his shields. Its what I use in my fan fic.
 
> Elyse interrupting:
> I'm sorry, but since when is compartmentalizing your mind a sign of 
> being a sociopath?
> Are you suggesting all people with good emotional detachment/control
> have mental problems?
> It just seems kind of an unfair leap.

In a sixteen year old, yeah, I think its a sign of some pretty bad 
problems. I used to work in some pretty rough schools with some 
dangerous student gangbangers and I can tell you that every last one 
of them could compartmentalize their mind enough to keep a blank 
expression while knifing the guy next to them.  They'd be real good 
at Occlumency. Teenagers are supposed to be more like Harry, bundles 
of emotion and hormones who wear their hearts on their sleeves. It's 
what a teenager is. I have enough experience with detached teens to 
know that being that way is a real bad idea.

Furthermore, in the mugglenet interview JKR actually says that in a 
way Harry is better off with not being great at occulmency because it 
means he isn't as cut off from his emotions as Draco is.  tells me 
that the skill of Occlumency isn't often a skill of the incredibly 
moral.  

> Elyse: Come on, give Snape due credit. He lost emotional control 
> two times *only* in 6 years. Both times he was reacting to 
> memories of childhood bullies.

Wah Wah Wah. Poor wittle Snape. He is an almost forty years old man, 
he should get past a childhood trama with a dead guy. Own up to the 
fact he ain't ever going to get back at James Potter and remove the 
rod from his @##.

As for only twice in six years, I also have to disagree there. I see 
every encounter with Harry as an example of lost emotional control. 
What else is blaming the son of a dead man for his crimes, real or 
imagined if not a lack of emotion control? If he were genuinely good 
at compartmentalizing he should be able to seperate James from Harry 
and treat each one of them in the way they have earned.  

Harry hasn't earned the way Snape treats him. 

> Compare that to Harry who loses his temper so often, especially
> in OOTP, and goes into long rants against his best friends,
> his family, his girlfriend, and that too for little things.
> Its Harry who has poor emotional control, not Snape.

When did he rant against his girlfriend? I remember awkwardness but 
no ranting. And Harry is a teenager, he should be erratic. That's 
what they are. Teenage brains are miracles of hormonal instability.  
The brains of forty year olds, much more stable. At least if you 
aren't Snape.
 
> Elyse:

> I am not justifying her behaviour, merely pointing out that he is 
> one of many unpleasant (mild adjective) people.

In a way I think Snape is worse than Voldemort which is why I react 
to him so strongly. Voldie is a mustache twirling cartoon villain, 
Snape is the sort of evil that can crush a kids love of learning and 
there are far more examples of that kind of evil than there are of 
Voldemorts.

> Hagrid who JKR loves, is more culpable than Snape of being a bad 
> teacher. He puts students' lives in danger with his dangerous
> creatures. He does it knowingly, which is in my opinion worse.
> Also his lessons have very little educational value.

Not true, his lessons are used in almost every book by Harry and Co. 
I don't think he endangers students for the most part, guys like 
Draco endanger themselves by not listening him because they think 
they know better. Frankly, I think Hagrid teaches the most 
interesting classes in the books and I would sit in on any of the 
them in a new york minute.
 
Snape's I wouldn't take if I were paid.

Phoenixgod2000