Sadistic Snape, Occlumency, etc

[vmonte]

No: HPFGUIDX 140263

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ellecain" <ellecain at y...>
>
>I would like to point this out to people arguing for the
> Sadistic!Snape thread. If he is as sadistic as you paint him, why
> did he not enjoy this moment more?

>Phoenixgod2000 wrote:
He was in the middle of a pitched battle that needed attending to and
gloating takes up too much time. Maybe because he was trying to keep
his eye on the prize and his plans were nearing fruition or hell,
maybe he really was working for Dumbledore and liked the old guy.
Hell, just because he worked for DD doesn't mean he can't be a sadist
to his students and Harry in particular. getting out his issues on
inferiors with little ability to strike back seems like the sort of
thing a petty sadist would engage in.

vmonte responds:
I agree with Phoenixgod2000. Snape has just murdered Dumbledore. His 
main goal is to get out of Hogwarts as fast as he can before anyone 
finds out what he has done.    

> Elyse interrupting:
> I'm sorry, but since when is compartmentalizing your mind a sign of
> being a sociopath?
> Are you suggesting all people with good emotional detachment/control
> have mental problems?
> It just seems kind of an unfair leap.

>Phoenixgod2000:
In a sixteen year old, yeah, I think its a sign of some pretty bad
problems. I used to work in some pretty rough schools with some
dangerous student gangbangers and I can tell you that every last one
of them could compartmentalize their mind enough to keep a blank
expression while knifing the guy next to them. They'd be real good
at Occlumency. Teenagers are supposed to be more like Harry, bundles
of emotion and hormones who wear their hearts on their sleeves. It's
what a teenager is. I have enough experience with detached teens to
know that being that way is a real bad idea.

Furthermore, in the mugglenet interview JKR actually says that in a
way Harry is better off with not being great at occulmency because it
means he isn't as cut off from his emotions as Draco is. tells me
that the skill of Occlumency isn't often a skill of the incredibly
moral.

vmonte:
It is a bad sign. I've seen this type of detachment in children as 
young as five.

> Elyse: Come on, give Snape due credit. He lost emotional control
> two times *only* in 6 years. Both times he was reacting to
> memories of childhood bullies.

>Phoenixgod2000:
Wah Wah Wah. Poor wittle Snape. He is an almost forty years old man,
he should get past a childhood trama with a dead guy. Own up to the
fact he ain't ever going to get back at James Potter and remove the
rod from his @##.

As for only twice in six years, I also have to disagree there. I see
every encounter with Harry as an example of lost emotional control.
What else is blaming the son of a dead man for his crimes, real or
imagined if not a lack of emotion control? If he were genuinely good
at compartmentalizing he should be able to seperate James from Harry
and treat each one of them in the way they have earned.

Harry hasn't earned the way Snape treats him.

vmonte:
Snape never loses his cool? I have to agree again with Phoenixgod. 
Snape comes off as a raving lunatic to me--complete with spit flying 
from his mouth. 

> Elyse:
> I am not justifying her behaviour, merely pointing out that he is
> one of many unpleasant (mild adjective) people.

>Phoenixgod2000:
In a way I think Snape is worse than Voldemort which is why I react
to him so strongly. Voldie is a mustache twirling cartoon villain,
Snape is the sort of evil that can crush a kids love of learning and
there are far more examples of that kind of evil than there are of
Voldemorts.

vmonte:
Yes, I have this same reaction to Snape. 

Elyse:
> Hagrid who JKR loves, is more culpable than Snape of being a bad
> teacher. He puts students' lives in danger with his dangerous
> creatures. He does it knowingly, which is in my opinion worse.
> Also his lessons have very little educational value.

>Phoenixgod2000:
Not true, his lessons are used in almost every book by Harry and Co.
I don't think he endangers students for the most part, guys like
Draco endanger themselves by not listening him because they think
they know better. Frankly, I think Hagrid teaches the most
interesting classes in the books and I would sit in on any of the
them in a new york minute.
Snape's I wouldn't take if I were paid.

vmonte:
Didn't Harry learn about Buckbeak, skrewts, dragons, and thestrals 
from Hagrid? 

Vivian