Snape, Snape and more Snape!

[ellecain]

No: HPFGUIDX 140350

Elyse - Boy do you guys post a lot over the weekend!
I'm having a hard time keeping up!
I'm just replying to a lot of them here, even though I have a 
chemistry test tomorrow.
And they are all defending Snape, so I give you fair warning before 
leaping in.

Pippin:
But I also think that Snape's instinct to be protective is damaged, 
so
that when he does protect someone it is not out of animal instinct 
but actually, in JKR's eyes, nobler because it is a choice, though
Snape isn't always noble enough to make it. 

Elyse: Pippin, you are wonderful!
I keep thinking along the same lines. I do agree that 
Snape is a dark wizard in impulse or in essence. But it is his 
choice not to act on those impulses that shows his strength and 
change in conviction.

LittleBitGal:
I think your use of "anti-social Snape" is a good description of 
Snape.
I don't think he cares to be around people.  He does care that 
students
learn and learn properly.  I had never thought of Snape as being evil
until I began reading the posts here.  I thought of him as a loaner, 
a
perfectionist, maybe a bit too quick to judge others; but never 
evil.  

Elyse: I have to admit that I wasnt the Snape fanatic I seem
to be before HBP. I certainly did not think he was nice or anything
but he never seemed to be evil either. I took Dumbledore at his word 
in GoF.
As for the anti social bit, I believe he is uncomfortable in
groups of people. I think this stems from a deep mistrust and 
suspicion of their motives.
Of course this can be explained away by a possibly abusive 
childhood, bullying by the Marauders, and lack of social skills.
But I very often wonder if he had a friend he believed in utterly,
one who may be dead or one who betrayed him for popularity.
The Slytherin gang doesnt cut it with me. I see them as the 
peer pressure exerted to use the Dark Arts.
 
Alla:
I used to think that JKR wishes Happy birthdays to good guys only, 
now of course I am not so sure about it. :-)

So, going back to the subject of Snape - he is on the  calendar, 
right?

Elyse: I would love to know his birthdate if anyone can provide it 
to me. I have a passing interest in Astrology and I am very 
disappointed that JKR doesnt use more of it in Divination classes.

Lupinlore:
If you want an 
argument from fairness, then consider that it isn't easy being nice, 
and therefore it only stands to reason that nice people are accorded 
a 
reward in most situations -- that reward being that they get breaks 
not given to mean people.
>SNIP<
Nice people are forgiven for minor 
failings, while the failings of mean people are held against them to 
the letter of the law and the rulebook.

Elyse:
Thats not a justification, Lupinlore, but an excuse.
A slightly valid one, but an excuse all the same.
To illustrate, we only have to consider James' bullying of Snape.
The fact that Harry was disturbed by it was an excellent thing.
And Sirius and Lupin's excuses were to put it simply , quite 
pathetic. I mean, he and James hated each other, it was just
"one of those things" or "James hated the Dark Arts" were
bad enough.

But then Lupin actually says "You father and Sirius were the best in 
the school at whatever they did"
coupled with Sirius going on about how James was so popular,
and so good at quidditch and such a good student
"- and if they sometimes got carried away-"
" -if we were sometimes arrogant little berks, you mean"

I feel "carried away" and "arrogant berks" to be euphemisms
which do not remotely correspond to the humiliation of
having your underwear exposed in front of the whole school.
Just because James was popular and the regular Quidditch Cup
winning hero DOES NOT justify or excuse his behaviour in any way.
This is the reason why Football Jocks and The Popular Good Looking 
Guy are stereotypes for bullies along with supposedly macho
hazing rituals in fraternities.
And in this case, it left lasting damage, so no matter if James was
super smart, charming , wonderful in every way, it still brings out
a very emotional response in me, and makes me sick, despite never 
having been bullied or humiliated myself.

And as a side thought, I think it was a sort of fitting punishment
that James, who was a bully, died to save his son, and in the 
process left him to be bullied and abused, not by Snape,
but by the Dursleys for ten long years.

Please dont think me twisted in any way. I admire your
arguments in every eloquent post you put up, and I wish each time 
that I had your skill, not only with words, but the ability to 
see different sides of an issue.  

> Jen:
Snape inspires so many different emotions and thoughts, and my 
> bar for evil is different. But I'd rather debate it now & have the 
> chance to disagree than read the series 5 years from now with the 
> outcome a known quantity--we're the lucky ones.

Elyse:
I would like to agree wholeheartedly with you Jen, 
I consider the members of this board to be fabulous, intelligent 
people, and I am privileged to discuss theories with them.
Can I use the opportunity to thank all of you for the 
fun I have got out of reading many intersting posts and marvellous 
arguments back and forth?

P.S. - I would like to thank bboyminn/Steve for his support on the
Keep Harry Horcrux Free Challenge about needing a body to use 
magical power. Didnt read it when I replied to Saraquel.

P.P.S - Finwitch wrote a very interesting post about DD's trust 
keeping Snape on the good side. I might be able to expand on it once 
I get Snape's birthday.