Sadistic actions (Snape) versus sadistic person (Umbridge)

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 140336

The biggest obstacle to reaching an agreement about *anything*
on this list is how we define any given concept under  discussion.
(No criticism, just an observation). Evil, abuse,  sadism...these
are all concepts that can have a diverse range of meanings, which 
are partly based on our individual feelings, experiences and  influences
in our environment. So all I can really do is argue my concept of a 
sadistic person. 
 
First, I'm not really comfortable labelling people unless that label 
defines the clear majority of that person's  actions/interactions. 
Take any positive or negative trait, and virtually every human has
exhibited that trait at one time or another. We've all felt sadistic 
pleasure at another's misfortune, been verbally abusive to a friend
or family member (and if you have siblings, it was probably a 
regular mode of communication during those growing up years!), 
and we've all committed an "everyday evil" act or two. Or three.
Within the WW, Harry has done all three of the above, as have
most of the other WW characters, but I don't see him in any
way close to being defined by any of those occasional actions. 
 
So what about Snape? Is he a sadistic person? I.e., is that  
attitude/intent apparent during most of his actions/interactions? 
Or does he merely sometimes act in a sadistic manner?
 
I believe it is the latter when it comes to Snape. Certainly  we've 
seen him act in a sadistic manner. Both telling Hermoine "I see
no difference" and breaking Harry's turned in potion (or simply 
taking pleasure in the fact that it fell and broke), seem to be
responses motivated by nothing more than enjoyment in seeing 
someone else's pain. Still, this doesn't seem to define most  
of Snape's actions. 
 
For instance, I think Snape's belittlement of Neville is based
fundamentally on frustration. Snape expects a high level of 
competence from his students, probably too high given not 
every student can possibly perform at an equal level. And when
he doesn't get what he expects he lashes out at the offender, 
not primarily out of a desire to cause the offender pain, but 
because he's so irritated by incompetence. This is NOT nice
behavior, BTW, but it's not sadism. 
 
Similarly, while Snape "started" it with Harry in PS/SS, there
is no doubt Harry's subsequent behavior on many occasions
has only cemented Snape's enmity. Snape no doubt believes 
Harry deserves the continual verbal lashings he delivers--he 
may even believe he's doing Harry a favor by taking him down
a peg or two on a regular basis (and we're talking about what
Snape *believes* not what he's actually accomplishing, which
is Harry's enmity in return). And while Snape is very mistaken
in his approach, even to the point of meanness, I don't think it
is done with sadistic intent. 
 
Which is the difference between him and Umbridge. She *does*
act with sadistic intent. She's not trying to teach Harry anything,
or punishing him for actions that she could honestly perceive
as deserving of punishment (especially at that level). She is 
punishing him *primarily* for the sadistic pleasure she derives
from his pain as evidenced by her reactions. 
 
I might add too, that while Sirius and James are jerks in the
pensieve scene, and some of their actions border on sadistic, 
they don't come off as primarily sadistic people there. They 
are being mean and cruel, but it's based on a long history
of enmity with Snape. Peter, OTOH, who actually takes no
action, *is* sadistic. While James and Sirius seem to react 
out of both anger and dislike of Snape, Peter seems to be 
only focused on his enjoyment of Snape's pain and  humiliation
to the point of salivating. (I found nothing James, Sirius or Snape
did in that scene nearly as disturbing as Peter's displaced joy.)
 
I also give Snape a pass on his behavior involving the  Marauders,
especially Sirius. Those two have lived a lifetime hating each  other
and delighting in causing each other pain. It may be mutual sadism,
but to me it's a behavior restricted to that particular relationship, 
not a general trait that either applies to everyone in general. IMO,
they both deserved what they gave the other, since neither would
make even a minimal effort to bury the hatchet (except in the other's
back, of course). And that Snape would take pleasure in the idea 
of Sirius being kissed by a dementor is hardly surprising, given the
hateful history between them. I'm betting Sirius would have been 
seriously pleased himself if the situation were reversed. (I also  note
here that Snape had reason to believe Sirius *deserved* that nasty
kiss. Even though he'd been told differently, it's not surprising he 
was reluctant to let go of that long-standing belief in his enemy's
guilt.)
 
So, while I believe Snape certainly can be sadistic, I don't see
him primarily motivated by sadism. Which is why I don't  define
him in my mind as a "sadistic person." But that is only my 
definition, 
 
Julie 
 
 
 
 
 


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