Sadistic Snape

[delwynmarch]

No: HPFGUIDX 140420

vmonte wrote:
"You just comfirmed what I've been saying
about Snape. He behaves  inappropriately"

Del replies:
Inappropriately according to your rules 
and mine, but not necessarily according 
to his own rules. He has absolutely no 
obligation to adopt our rules, you know.

vmonte wrote:
"because he does not feel bound to do the 
right thing, "

Del replies:
Not necessarily. First, it's not certain 
we and he agree on what "the right thing" 
is. As I said, the vendetta is the right 
thing to do in some circles. Second, 
not every moral system states that one 
should always try and do "the right thing", 
whatever it is. And third, there's the very 
tricky matter of "exceptions": when do 
we depart from our general rules? Different 
people have different ideas of what 
exceptions are acceptable.

vmonte wrote:
"he has not learned the appropriate 
standards of conduct from Dumbledore,"

Del replies:
You're using the word "appropriate" yet 
again, even though you haven't demonstrated 
that your morality is inherently better 
than Snape's. You argue that Snape should 
have learned to act like DD, I ask why. In 
the absence of a High Ruler who makes the 
rules, everyone is free to make their own 
rules, and nobody has to conform to anybody 
else's rules. If one breaks the law, then 
one can be legally punished, but that's 
about it. If Snape doesn't want to adopt 
DD's morality, that's his right.

vmonte wrote:
"he has a vendetta against a dead man,"

Del replies:
A very classic situation in RL.

vmonte wrote:
"he's emotionally arrested,"

Del replies:
Not entirely his fault, is it?

vmonte wrote:
"and it is not certain whether he ever 
had an ephiphany. "

Del replies:
I personally don't buy at face value 
DD's explanation about Snape having 
a deep remorse. Snape hated James 
personally, he apparently had no 
respect for Muggle-born Lily, so in 
the absence of more explanation, I 
believe that DD twisted words once again, 
and that Snape's remorse was not exactly 
the kind of remorse we could hope for.

vmonte wrote:
"In short, he has behaved like a deeply 
horrible and sadistic person."

Del replies:
Deeply horrible, yes, but that's his right. 
Sadistic, I don't know. I personally think 
that even though Snape has sadistic 
tendencies, like most of us, he doesn't 
actually thrive on them, so he's not 
sadistic per se. JMO, of course.

vmonte wrote:
"But it's all an act right? But he is 
still good right?"

Del replies:
Are you taking me for a Snapologist? 
Because I'm not. I personally believe 
that Snape has been genuinely horrible, 
but I claim his right to be so if he 
wants to.

I also believe that a horrible person 
can be on the side of Good technically. 
Snape might not fight on the side of 
Good for moral reasons, but he might very 
well have technical reasons for doing so. 
Being a horrible person doesn't preclude 
fighting for a morally good cause, IMO, 
even if he doesn't fight for it because 
it's a good cause.

vmonte wrote:
"But he cannot help his actions 
because he is a vampire,"

Del replies:
He's not :-)

vmonte wrote:
"he is cursed by the DADA curse,"

Del replies:
Even if he is, that's his own fault: 
he didn't have to apply for the job.

vmonte wrote:
"Harry is the real bad guy, those brats 
deserve to be put in their place,"

Del replies:
No, LV is the real bad guy, but the kids 
are no saints either, and they do 
make stupid moves sometimes. 

vmonte wrote:
"the unbreakable vow wasn't really 
unbreakable/and or it was,"

Del replies:
Lol! Well, it IS one or the other, isn't it ;-) ?

vmonte wrote:
"he had no choice but to kill Dumbledore, 
Dumbledore was too weak to be much use 
anyway, Dumbledore wanted to die, murdering 
Dumbledore in front of Harry was something 
Dumbledore thought would be a good thing 
for him--something to make Harry 
nostalgic/reminisce over the good old days 
when Sirius and his own parents were killed,"

Del replies:
I personally have no opinion of what 
went on on the Tower. I know what we saw, 
but I also know that we cannot 100% trust 
what we saw (as in: who killed those 
Muggles? Peter or Sirius?) and I don't 
know what the motives for both Snape 
and DD were. In short, there's way too 
much I don't know for me to pass a judgement.

vmonte wrote:
"Snape didn't think that telling 
Voldemort about the prophecy was 
going to get Harry and his family killed--
he just thought some other shmuck's 
family was going to get it,"

Del replies:
I just posted a theory that Snape was 
absolutely convinced that the 
Prophecy was about Neville :-)

vmonte wrote:
"and making the right choices are 
not important to JKR--"

Del replies:
Yes it is. But I think JKR also knows 
that "the right choices" doesn't 
necessarily have the same meaning for 
every one of her characters.

vmonte wrote: 
"because she is a liar,"

Del replies:
I don't think she's a liar. But I 
do remember that her work is still in 
progress, so she's bound to try and 
cover some things as much as possible, 
especially if she has planned some very 
bangy things in Book 7.

vmonte wrote:
"someone who doesn't know how 
to phrase things correctly,"

Del replies:
I personally believe that she very 
carefully phrases things in her books. 
But that doesn't mean that she is as 
careful during the interviews. The 
written form and the oral form are 
two very different beasts. Just because 
someone masters one of them doesn't in 
any way mean that they have as 
good a grip on the other.

vmonte wrote:
"and is completely misinformed 
about what real sadism is. "

Del replies:
Oh no she's not! She created Umbridge...

Personally I understand those who try 
and defend Snape, because that's where 
the challenge is, that's where the fun 
is. Arguing that Snape is bad is boring 
IMO, because it's way too obvious, way 
too easy. Snape is a horrible person, 
so it takes a very little step to make 
him evil too. While figuring out how 
to reconcile his horribleness (?) with 
his working for the Good is much more 
challenging and fun IMO.

We have only a few years before Book 7. 
If people want to have fun with the 
many extremely ambiguous clues about 
Snape that JKR planted throughout the 
series, it's *now or never*. There's a 
high risk that the Snape Mistery will 
be over after Book 7, so it will be 
too late then to discuss that matter.

So I say "live and let live" :-) Let 
the Snapologists have fun! Let them 
push the limits of the canon. Chances 
are that they will even uncover 
interesting things in the process, and 
they force us to rethink our 
assumptions, our preconceived ideas. 
So what's the hurt in it? 

They might be "wrong" by your 
standards ;-), but as long as they 
respect the rules of engagement on 
this list, they have a right to defend 
their favourite Potion/DADA teacher as 
much as they want :-)

JMO, of course.

Del