The handwriting in the book (Was: Lily and Snape)

[sistermagpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 140459

> Valky:

> I really don't believe it refutes the canon that DADA is Snape's 
pet
> subject though. If he's to be found delving into theory of subjects
> and considering practical applications then the ratio of subjects 
he's
> doing it with is 5:1 DADA:anything else at all. I think we have 
enough
> canon to go with an assumption like that.

Magpie:

I don't think we do, actually.  Snape's textbook is full of notes on 
Potions and Dark Arts spells.  The Dark Arts does seem to be his 
favorite subject, but he's been connected to advanced Potions a lot 
as well.  So while I do think we're told Snape's greatest love is 
DADA, I don't think that's reason to think he wasn't responsible for 
the Potions improvements in his textbook.  Perhaps he's better at 
Potions, in fact.  


> Valky:
> Okay first things first, my initial point is that Perfumery and 
Snape
> are not a match. Perfumery and a popular girl are a match. Simple 
as
> that. That's pretty essentially my argument when it comes to Snapes
> sensibilities. 

Magpie:

But it's not necessarily an accurate description of canon at all.  
Just because peppermint happens to have a nice smell does not mean 
that it was added to smell pretty.  We're told why Snape added it--
to counteract side effects and thus make the potion more effective.  
You have made a personal connection between pretty, popular girls 
and aesthetic changes to Potions but it's not proven by anything.  A 
girl can be pretty and popular and have bad taste, or not like the 
smell of peppermint.  Pretty, popular girls may wear perfumes 
(sometimes too much making them smell bad), but they don't usually 
manufacture it.

In the book the addition of peppermint is presented the same way the 
Prince's decision to crush beans with a silver knife is presented: 
it works better because of the magical properties of peppermint.  
The HBP has an instinctive understanding of Potions that Slughorn 
wrongly also attributes to Harry.  Slughorn also says Lily has this 
kind of instinctive understanding, but that does not necessarily 
mean that Snape was copying Lily. 

As for Snape's having no use for this Potion, can we really know 
what Potions Snape doesn't have a use for?  Harry himself makes this 
Potion with an eye towards getting Slughorn in the right frame of 
mind.  Malfoy and Nott smirk at the idea of a Love Potion being 
dangerous, and while that, too, is so far a "girlie" Potion, I 
wouldn't be too sure it hasn't been used to worse effect by boys or 
men.  Slughorn seems to suggest that no Potion should be dismissed.

> Valky:
> Well yeah thats a fair enough reason I suppose. But there are other
> spells and potions it doesn't seem absoutely necessary. 

Magpie:

But...is there really any point to arguing magical theory, which 
doesn't really exist?  It seems like the book presents these things 
with an obvious, simple intention there's no reason to ignore.  The 
Prince is shown to have experimented with Potions in the book, 
period.  Snape is also shown to be a very good Potions maker as an 
adult.  I don't think there's any reason, canonically, to assume 
that there are certain Potions that Snape would or would not use or 
want to make well because there are charms (foolish wand waving) 
that do a similar thing.  Sometimes a Potion is what you want, I'd 
guess.  You don't have to be there when the person drinks it, for 
instance. One might as well ask why anyone would charm a teacup to 
have legs.  Or why nobody uses a spell until Harry has learned it, 
even when it seems like they should have in retrospect.
  
> Valky:
> Well hang on, I m finding it hard to get the whole picture. The
> schemer would probably need to use some other spell or magic to get
> the drinker to do the deeds, right? For the drinker to assume it's
> just the potions side effects. In that case why bother so much 
with a
> sweet smelling euphoria with no side effects to begin with. Fake 
side
> effects are just more trouble requiring additional spells. Am I
> understanding you?

Magpie:

I don't think it really matters.  There are reasons for a Euphoria 
Potion.  There are also side effects to the Potion that are 
considered less than desirable.  The Half-Blood Prince therefore 
tweaked the Potion to get rid of them.  If the side effects would 
have been reduced by the addition of pig's urine I'm sure he would 
have put that in.  I think JKR just had to come up with something 
that sounded scientific but wasn't, and this time it happened to 
be, "Ah, peppermint--that will reduce the nose-tweaking."  Actually, 
I used to come up with stuff like that for a book series I wrote 
for.  I seem recall claiming that a piece of string provided 
structural support somewhere.


> Valky:
 
> Anyhow, back to the point, what you say above actually construes 
in my
> defense. Harry found no notes on improving Golpalotts laws in the
> textbook, the bezoar notation was later in the book scrawled over a
> list of general antidotes to poison.  Suggesting that Snape himself
> didn't consider alternatives to Golpalotts law just to the 
antidotes
> list (probably all for poisons treatable via bezoar), the bezoar 
as an
> alternative to analysis was all Harry, and apparently according to
> Slughorn very much the kind of thing Lily would have done.

Magpie:

But why is that a defense of the idea that Lily had anything to do 
with Harry's textbook?  We know Snape is aware of the properties of 
a bezoar--he's mentioned it in class and here he's written it in his 
book on a day he seems to have been bored with his Potions 
assignment on antidotes.  We also know that Snape thinks the study 
of other antidotes is important--he assigned it in fourth year 
(hinting he'd be poisoning students as a test).  Relying on always 
having a bezoar around would be foolish, imo.  

It's just I don't think that Harry coming up with a cheeky way of 
getting out of doing his work means that it was really Lily who 
wrote or said, "Just shove a bezoar down their throats."  If Snape 
had written that down in response to the question on Golpalott's Law 
there would at least be more of a connection drawn with Lily (though 
even then remember Slughorn doesn't tell us that Lily did what Harry 
did, he just makes a vague connection between Harry's cheeky Potions 
joke-answer to Lily always being a good student who was cheeky).  As 
it is it seems to me that the main thing about the scene is the 
combination of Harry with Snape--Harry is taking Snape's knowledge 
that a bezoar is a universal antidote(knowledge he's given him in 
his adult incarnation as well) and using it in a way Snape probably 
never did when he hasn't the slightest idea how to do something in 
class.  If Harry had tried the bezoar in Snape's class, he would 
have given him a zero.


-m