The handwriting in the book (Was: Lily and Snape)

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 140439

I really haven't answered this thread very completely in my last post
to it. So I have decided to pick it up again since it really is an
interesting discussion.



> > Valky:
> > I agree they are all reasonable suggestions, but I think we do 
> > know that DADA is Snapes pet subject. 
> <snip>
> > Among other things, his loving caress of a speech about Dark Arts, 
> > his inventions, and his reputation for being nose deep in anything 
> > Dark Arts since he was a child.. this all speaks multitudes about 
> > it.
> 
> Dungrollin:
> (Forgive me for butting in) On the other hand, the 'foolish wand-
> waving' comment suggests to me a love of theory and its application 
> to practical matters.

Valky:
Well said Dungrollin. I don't mind the butting in at all, I agree with
that. It totally refutes all contention that the inventions in the
textbook were not Snape's but I don't see any of that here. :D
I really don't believe it refutes the canon that DADA is Snape's pet
subject though. If he's to be found delving into theory of subjects
and considering practical applications then the ratio of subjects he's
doing it with is 5:1 DADA:anything else at all. I think we have enough
canon to go with an assumption like that.


> 
> > > zgirnius:
> > > Well, actually I don't find it odd to ascribe either quality to 
> > > Snape. For aesthetics, I'd cite his first ever speech in Potions 
> > > class. Poetic, that.
> > 
> > Valky now:
> > There is a definite connection between Snapes 
> fashionable eloquence and his genius in incantation, but it's a 
> different kettle of fish to perfumery, shimmer, and an elegant touch 
> with nature itself. These things would translate into a well groomed 
> person (nice smelling potions), with a gentleness about them 
> (removing less pleasant side effects from the potion), a love and 
> affinity with nature (bean juicing). 
> 
> Dungrollin:
> Sooo... ugly people can't appreciate a Titian or Rembrandt? Ever 
> seen Rembrandt's self-portrait? <snip>
> 
> And I think that translating a more efficient way of getting juice 
> out of a bean into a love of nature is a bit of a stretch. <snip>
> And, furthermore, why should a love of nature (if it's a valid 
> deduction, which I don't think it is) be more obviously ascribable 
> to Lily than Snape? Did we hear about her and James going for long 
> walks in the countryside around Hogsmeade and I've forgotten?

Valky:
Okay first things first, my initial point is that Perfumery and Snape
are not a match. Perfumery and a popular girl are a match. Simple as
that. That's pretty essentially my argument when it comes to Snapes
sensibilities. 

OTOH I concede that extrapolating a love of nature from bean juicing
is a fair bit thin. I add it because the other two arguments are
strong, we at least know for certain that Snape is not your
natureloving type. So if the deduction holds at all it eliminates
Snape from the running. That is as good as it gets so I am willing to
drop it, and concede your point that its thin and wrinkled as the bean
itself.
 

> 
> > > Valky:
> > > > It's not his area to add a sprig
> > > > of peppermint to improve a euphoria potion, is it? Surely not. 
> Why would Snape even *care* about "Euphoria" potion of all things? 
> Let alone whether it smelled nice or if the dunderhead who bothered 
> to take it tweaked his nose and burst into foolish song all over the 
> > place.
> > 
> 
> Dungrollin:
> Well... I can think of a good number of underhand reasons. A 
> Euphoria potion might be quite useful if you needed to get somebody 
> to do something they wouldn't ordinarily have the confidence to do.

Valky:
Well yeah thats a fair enough reason I suppose. But there are other
spells and potions it doesn't seem absoutely necessary. 

Dungrollin:
> I suppose that it's quite well known that there are side effects to 
> many potions. If you were trundling along euphorically, about to do 
> something daring that you'd never otherwise do and found yourself 
> tweaking noses and bursting into song, you might suddenly 
> think "Hang on - I remember reading something about this..." then 
> become suspicious that you were under the influence of a behaviour-
> changing potion, and decide that going to bed to sleep it off 
> (cheerfully) is a much better idea. If, on the other hand, you 
> simply found yourself euphoric and decided to do something you 
> wouldn't normally do and there were *no* tell-tale signs that 
> something was amiss, the devious schemer's plan would be more likely 
> to work, wouldn't it?

Valky:
Well hang on, I m finding it hard to get the whole picture. The
schemer would probably need to use some other spell or magic to get
the drinker to do the deeds, right? For the drinker to assume it's
just the potions side effects. In that case why bother so much with a
sweet smelling euphoria with no side effects to begin with. Fake side
effects are just more trouble requiring additional spells. Am I
understanding you?

 
> Valky:
> and consider, The same person who intellectually derived 
> improvements to potions recipes through scientific trial an error, 
> gives a cheekfaced attitude to the notion of troubling too much to 
> do the same for an antidote. It's counterintuitive, IMO. 
> 
> Dungrollin:
> But it wasn't that he didn't bother with the antidotes, Harry seems 
> to think that the Half-Blood Prince had (like Hermione) understood 
> the theory with no problem. Snape may not ever have found an 
> improvement on the method of using 'Specialis revelio' to separate 
> the poisons,

Valky:
You know I found this an amusing point. When I was rereading the
chapter with the bezoar scene in it earlier I was reminded that Harry
and Ron couldn't copy Hermione's Specialis Revelio spell because she
was adept at non verbal spells. They had to wait for Ernie MacMillan
to incant it aloud in order to remember what it was. This was n
uncomfortable moment for them :D 

Anyhow, back to the point, what you say above actually construes in my
defense. Harry found no notes on improving Golpalotts laws in the
textbook, the bezoar notation was later in the book scrawled over a
list of general antidotes to poison.  Suggesting that Snape himself
didn't consider alternatives to Golpalotts law just to the antidotes
list (probably all for poisons treatable via bezoar), the bezoar as an
alternative to analysis was all Harry, and apparently according to
Slughorn very much the kind of thing Lily would have done.

 
> Dungrollin
> Utterly convinced that Snape has a deep love of learning, and 
> reading, and enquiring about the universe.

Valky
Also utterly convinced of Snapes deep love of learning, reading and
enquiring, but not convinced that the potions notations are Snapes
mind at work.