Straightforward readings? (was Re: Truth vs. what meets Harry's eye )

[lupinlore]

No: HPFGUIDX 140701

> Elyse again:
> You know, Lupinlore, that you are reiterating the same points you 
> made in your first post after HBP?
> I was sifting through the early reactions yesterday and I found 
> yours - number 132936
> 
> And I was surprised to find you saying:
> > I thought the whole thing with Snape was well-done but 
> > extraordinarily manipulative. She essentially showed us something 
> > while banging us over the head almost every chapter with reasons 
> why 
> > we shouldn't take what we see at face value -- which itself 
raises 
> > suspicions that maybe we should do just that. I am, once again, 
> > almost totally bemused.



Yep, and that's still what I think.  I've been pretty consistant, or 
at least tried to be, in saying that I think no explanation of Snape 
at this point is without severe problems, be it ESE, DDM, or OFH.  I 
think that DDM is the one that is the most deeply problematic and 
unbelievable, relying as it does on contrived solutions that smack of 
the worst kind of comic book plotting.  Unfortunately, the romantic 
subplots of HBP, along with the quick resolution of the emotional 
fallout of Sirius' death (sorry Alla, if you're listening, but I just 
can't agree with you on that one) show that JKR CAN sink to that 
level.  HBP on its own terms is a pretty good book and certainly much 
better than OOTP, however as part of a series it shows that JKR does 
have a bad habit of getting herself into binds (for instance the 
implicatons about manipulative Dumbledore at the end of OOTP or the 
problems of how to deal with a sixteen-year-old who has had emotional 
trauma piled on top of emotional trauma) and then getting herself out 
again by hand-waving and rug-sweeping.  

But I also agree with those who find it impossible to believe that 
Dumbledore could be completely fooled by ESE!Snape for 16 years, or 
that all of Snape's actions and behaviors can be easily squared with 
ESE.

For this reason, among others, I think that OFH!Snape is the most 
logical and least problematic, but even there I admit that problems 
arise very quickly and it's hard to come up with any solution that 
doesn't automatically call forth a cry of "Now just wait a cotton-
pickin' minute, here!"


Elyse:
> 
> JKR who has never been concerned about what fans think pre-HBP,

 has 
> really, 
> as you put it, written herelf into a corner.
> If she wants to show us ESE!Snape now, it will take a lot of 
> "handwaving and sweeping under rugs" of the pro DD'sMan!Snape
> clues she herself laid out.
> 

Lupinlore:
Oh, I agree.  ESE!Snape would entail a lot of hand-waving and 
contrivance, along with a lot of rug-sweeping.  DDM!Snape would 
probably not entail so much rug-sweeping, but it would involve 
contrivance so thick as to be physically sickening and hand-waving so 
vigorous that it would threaten the flight path of a 747.

Before HBP I was hopeful (although I must admit not as much as I was 
before OOTP) that JKR would "play fair" in the sense of crafting a 
solution that brought together major plot threads and developments in 
a believable and satisfying way.  I wasn't expecting "Sixth Sense" 
but I was hoping that she wouldn't resort to tedious and unimpressive 
strategems like just sweeping things under the rug; forcing 
characters to develop in bizarre, rapid, and unbelievable ways; 
coming up with blatantly manipulative scenes so that she can say 
later that "Well, Harry was just completely wrong;"
or having DD make yet more of his cryptic utterances that reveal so 
very little and only serve as excuses to spring unbelievable plot 
twists down the road. 


Unfortunately, although I still say that HBP is, within its own 
bounds, a good and entertaining book, it did, particularly in the way 
it related to past developments, constitute an exercise in cheating 
on JKR's part.  I was among those who thought that JKR made several 
fairly serious mistakes with OOTP, but I was hopeful that she would 
try to deal with them honestly.  Instead, HBP struck me as being 
rather reactive.  It was as if JKR said:

"Whoops!  I don't want to deal with a Harry who acts like he's been 
through multiple traumas in the past few months! Lots of fans didn't 
like Angry!Harry anyway, and if I deal in any realistic way with 
Sirius that means having Angry! or even Depressed!Harry. Let's have 
him have an epiphany off-stage at the Dursleys and put the whole 
thing aside.  Whoops!  A lot of fans didn't like all the new 
characters and expanded Hogwarts, and I've got too much to do in the 
next book anyway, so let's just go back to the Gryffindor club and 
have everybody act like all of that didn't happen.  Whoops!  I didn't 
mean to imply a lot of the things that people object to in DD's 
speech, so let's pretend he didn't say that and give him another 
speech instead.  Whoops!  Occlumency raises issues about DD and Snape 
and Harry that go in directions I didn't intend, and I have things 
for DD to do in his meetings with Harry other than spend a lot of 
time going into the whys and wherefores and hows of Occlumency.  
Let's just have Voldemort decide that love hurts too much and we'll 
sweep aside the whole issue.  Besides, it might be convenient later 
on for Harry not to be able to close his mind.  Whoops!  People are 
expecting romantic subplots and I haven't bothered to really lay the 
foundation.  Well, we'll just have to forget all that about a war 
going on and people dying and all the hints about how things might be 
different at Hogwarts this year and just get in a lot of jealousy and 
snogging and stuff.  Whoops!  I really didn't mean to imply that 
sextet business, and it takes too much fun out of Hogwarts for there 
to be too much house unity -- never mind I've been talking about it 
for three books now.  Let's just quietly get rid of all the house 
unity stuff for a while -- we can have Harry disband the DA, push the 
Sorting Hat's unity speech off-stage, and emphasize Quidditch, 
romance, and House rivalry, relegate Luna and, especially, Neville to 
near cameos, and generally just pretend that all that stuff from OOTP 
I don't want to deal with never really happened.  Whoops!  People 
really like Lupin, and it makes all sorts of sense for him and Harry 
to become closer in the wake of Sirius' death, but that would violate 
the strict Hero's Journey formula, and besides it wouldn't do for 
Harry to have someone around who knew too much about his parents and 
Snape and the Marauders.  So let's send him off on a mission and have 
him not even write, but we will let him get a thing going with Tonks 
sense, what the hey, everybody else is getting something going and 
fans like that ship, anyway.  Whoops!  Harry was really mad at DD at 
the end of OOTP, but people didn't like that and it wouldn't do in 
the Hero's Journey for the mentor to die while the acolyte was still 
mad.  So we'll set all that aside at the Dursleys' as well."

So, I've sadly put aside my hopes for a conclusion that is believable 
and doesn't involve a lot of contrivance, hand-waving, and rug-
sweeping.  And I have to admit that I don't give much weight to 
arguments that say "Such and such would be contrived or sweep 
something under the rug or not make any sense and therefore JKR would 
not do it."  Such and such may well be contrived and may well sweep 
something under the rug and may well not make any sense.  There is a 
LOT of stuff, as I've said, that I think would be contrived and 
unbelievable and sweep all sorts of issues under the rug and would 
not make any sense at all.  But does that mean JKR won't do that?  
Before HBP I would say I'm hopeful she will not.  After HBP, I would 
not be surprised in the least by a solution that is contrived, sweeps 
multiple issues under the rug, and makes no sense whatsoever from any 
number of angles.


Lupinlore