Snape and Neville/Potions and Herbology

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 140879

> > Alla responded: 
> > That is only one Potion, Carol and I did not say that they don't
> have other ingredients. 
> 
> Carol again:
> I know you didn't, but the point that Potions is not applied 
Herbology
> is important, so I'll cite a few more examples. 
<SNIP of the examples which could be read UPTHREAD>

> My point is that Herbology would familiarize a student with only 
about
> one third or at best one half of the potion ingredients (or at 
least
> the plants they come from), and with a general idea of the care and
> uses of these plants rather than how to use them in preparing the
> potions, which is of course the Potions master's job.


Alla:

I think we are arguing past each other, Carol. I snipped  the 
examples, because I am not arguing that Potions is an applied 
Herbology. What I AM arguing though  is that they are have enough 
similar aspects that the  student who excels in Herbology CAN be 
interested in Potions because some of the ingredients ARE plants ( 
and it is really not important to me whether it be one half , one 
quarter or one third)

Someone who loves as you said caring for plants and uses for them 
COULD be interested in preparing  the potions.

I think it is very telling for example that Lexicon lists  

"One Thousands Magical Herbs and Fungi" as text book for BOTH 
Potions and Herbology. Now, Potions have another two text books 
listed, but my point is that for someone who loves Herbology the 
starting point in becoming interested in Potions could be seeing the 
SIMILARITIES  in two subjects and then MAYBE such student will be 
interested in differences.







 > Alla wrote:
> > But I absolutely disagree that you don't need to have a 
scientific
> mind in Biology.
> 
> Carol responds:
> Oops, Alla. You're crediting me with your own analogy. I never
> compared Herbology with Biology (or more specifically, Botany, 
which
> deals exclusively with plants). That's *your* analogy. And I never
> said that you don't need a scientific mind for Biology. Of course 
you
> do. I said that a wizard doesn't need a scientific for *Herbology*,
> any more than he needs one for COMC, the WW's closest equivalent to
> the other main branch of Biology, Zoology. 
<SNIP>

Alla:

Sorry for being unclear, but actually what I meant to say is that 
you need a scientific mind in Herbology. Of course I did not mean to 
credit you with my analogy. Sorry about that, but again I misspoke 
in the first place.

Again, it is not a precise analogy ( MINE, not yours), but I believe 
it fits. I don't understand why are you so readily dismiss Herbology 
as a science. Maybe WW definition of scientific is not as strict as 
ours. I think knowing precisely what to do with plants and with 
magical creatures ( how to cultivate them, on which dates to do 
whatever is required for Mandrakes, etc, could be called scientific)




> Carol responds:
> But that's still gardening, or Horticulture if you prefer, not 
Biology
> (Botany). You seem to be assuming that I made the Herbology/Biology
> analogy, which is actually your own, or that I agree with it, 
which I
> don't. Look at what the students actually do in Herbology lessons.
> They're either transplanting seedlings, picking pods, or extracting
> some sort of essence. They learn how to defend themselves against
> attack by the plant and a general idea of its uses (e.g., that 
murtlap
> essence soothes wounds), but they never examine the plant parts 
under
> a microscope or discuss the relationship of one plant to another 
as a
> Muggle Biology student would. 

Alla:

NO, actually as I said I just made an analogy and run with it. I 
don't remember saying anywhere in my post that Carol agrees with my 
analogy. :-)
Again, sorry if you understood me as such. My writing skills do need 
polishing.

I think Herbology is BOTH actually ( gardening and botany).

Interestingly, Lexicon seems to agree with me too. If you go to 
search for classes, you will see that they compare Hogwarts classes 
to Muggle ones and Herbology they classify as botany/gardening ( 
actually they say that our Neil Ward wrote it)


Just to be clear - I am not saying that you agree with it or that 
this is  the only analogy to make.


One more thing - on our practical lessons  in biology we sometimes 
did things very similar to what Herbology students do ( non magic 
related of course, but still very hands on plan cultivation).

Maybe they don't need to look at the plant under microscope, because 
they have a spell, which would reveal what this plant consists of.


Carol
<SNIP>
 Again, I see no
> evidence that skill in Herbology leads to skill in Potions or vice
> versa, and Neville seems to be exactly the person to prove the 
point.


Alla:

I told you the reasons on which I am basing my line of reasoning ( 
which as I said was speculative in the first place), but it fits 
with me quite well.

So, TO ME it is a possibility that the point Neville proves is that 
Snape killed any interest he may have in Potions from the very 
beginning.

JMO,

Alla.