Motivations for Joining DEs (Was: Bullying)

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 140944

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Jen Reese" <stevejjen at e...> 
wrote:

> Jen: Snape calling Lily a Mudblood does evoke the memory of Draco 
> calling Hermione the same. Whether JKR is really going for a "Snape 
> was similar to a boy Draco when he was in school" angle is hard to 
> say. Dumbledore seemed to feel Draco and Harry's instant dislike of 
> each other mirrored Severus and James.

It does seem rather parallel to me as well--the use of the word is so 
profoundly marked that I think we're meant to note who uses it and 
who doesn't, as well as the reactions of those who don't.

It's just levels of painful irony to find out that one person who 
uses it is partially tarring himself with the same brush to do it. 

<snip>

> I'm in no way going for the romance angle here (ick), but saying 
> there was a very large possibility Eileen was seen as a blood 
> traitor when she married a Muggle. Whether Voldemort knew about it 
> or cared is impossible to say, but the groundwork is there for 
> Snape to be recruited as a means of punishing Eileen. Perhaps 
> Snape, like Lupin and Draco, found out the truth later on.

Upthread the idea that Prince relatives could have pushed young 
Snapey into doing something.  But IMO, something militates against 
this coming from Eileen or her relatives: there's a wedding 
announcement in the Prophet.  I don't know how things are done in the 
WW, or Great Britain (regarding whether the parents or the couple 
does it), but you don't generally put an announcement in the paper if 
you're eloping.  Eileen married a Muggle, which speaks to some kind 
of openness; even if she deceived him about being a witch, she would 
never have married someone who she thought was 'filthy'.  This all 
speaks to it being at least reasonably amicable.  Young Snapey as 
being targeted because his mommy married a filthy Muggle...that has 
legs.  One does wonder how much he bought into the pureblood ideology.

> Jen: LOL! As for the nickname, I thought it was meant to be 
> somewhat of a cynical joke on Snape's part. The rest of his potion 
> book comments don't read like someone taking himself *that* 
> seriously, i.e., 'shove a bezoar down their throats'.

I should have been more specific: my correspondent was speaking 
specifically about the "I am the HBP, yo" screamfest near the end of 
the book.

Is the nickname a cynical joke?  I dunno.  Seems a little too much 
attachment to it for that to fly.  But then again, I also read that 
book comment as having less humor and more anger and impatience 
behind it.  YMMV.

> Jen: I wish we had more to go on than Sirius' words and the 
> Sectumsempra spell to say Snape was hoping to learning more dark 
> magic from LV. Having *Sirius* assess Snape's personality is like 
> asking Draco to describe Harry for us. 

True--but Sirius is really quite charitable to Snape in that scene, 
as we also get to see him when he's *not* being.  There are some 
things still open and curious, of course; but the rest of the 'gang 
of Slytherins' certainly are DEs (and pieces of work), and we do now 
have canon on Young!Snape's invention of curses/whatever, one of 
which is grade A nasty.  We also have canon from Bellatrix that 
Voldie taught Dark Magic to her.  This keeps it firmly in the realm 
of possibility, but certainly not proven.

> Oh wait! We do have the old interview comment here from Royal 
> Albert Hall: "When Prof Dumbledore took Prof Snape onto the staff 
> and Prof Snape said "I'd like to be Prof of Defence Against the 
> Dark Arts please" and Prof Dumbledore felt it might bring out the 
> worst in Snape so said "I think we'll get you to teach Potions and 
> see how you get along there"." 

One can provide the more charitable reading of that quote, to be 
sure, but my reading is more of the "there are things that it's not 
good to have Snape around for a reason".  Particularly as the essence 
of the Dark Arts is domination...

Speaking of that, my counterquestion is still open.  We've got hints 
and such that Snape is something of an ideological kindred to 
Voldemort--can anyone provide me with arguments for Snape as an 
*ideological* counterpart to Dumbledore?  Canon for Snape believing 
in the power of love, believing the best of people, faith, hope, 
charity, teamwork, friendship?

-Nora asks out of curiosity, natch