Sectumsempra in the pensieve / or not

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 150365

Potioncat:
How could I not be a part of a post that had Carol, Alla and Valky 
all at the same time? Hi Valky, glad to see you posting again! I 
wrote a very good, but quick post before work yesterday and YahooMort 
ate it! And I was late to work too! I've read the other comments and 
tried to look at the similar thread, but I'm using this post as the 
link.

snipping the portion where Carol and Alla debate whether Severus 
invented Sectumsempra in 5th year and used it in the Pensieve scene 
VRS he invented it after the Prank as revenge/protection.

Valky replied: 

> 
> Of course you know I agree with Alla on this one, especially on the
> point - Snape inventing Dark curses WAS one of the reasons of his
> rivalry with James, who always hated Dark Arts - I'd be so bold as 
to
> call this canon, myself, by virtue of Lupin in OOtP saying 
> 
> "- Snape was just this little oddball who was up to his eyes in the
> Dark Arts and James -- whatever else he may have appeared to you,
> Harry -- always hated the Dark Arts." 

Potioncat:
Can you please give the location of this quote. Not to quibble...OK, 
to quibble... my copy of OoP has Sirius saying that quote in chapter 
29. The only thing Remus really says is that after James quit hexing 
people, "Snape was a special case. I mean he never lost an 
opportunity to curse James, so you couldn't really expect James to 
take that lying down, could you?"

And where is the quote (I know it exists, and it's been mentioned 
lately) where someone says Snape arrived knowing more curses than 
most 7th years...is that in GoF?

Back to the issue at hand:
When I first read of Sectumsempra, I assumed it was the same cutting 
curse in OoP. I also assumed that Severus had controlled it better 
than Harry had. We've seen examples where lack or control or at 
least, very strong emotions can cause a spell to be more powerful. 
However, I'm not too sure Severus could have so much control in that 
situation. Also, the cut happens, there is blood...and not much else. 
No horrified gasps, no frantic wiping away, no comments. It's just 
gone. It seems to have the same impact a bloody nose has in a fist 
fight. So, whatever that spell was, I don't think it was considered 
Dark. But, afterwards, Severus could have adapted it. My stand is 
Sectumsempra, the Dark version, was invented later. 
 

>Valky: 
> I won't say James didn't have any prejudices, he did of course, but 
I
> would draw the line before accusing him of prejudging Sevvie based 
on
> unknown factors. IMO its only logical to assume that James pegged
> Snapey for Dark Arts Baby on something he personally observed, IMO
> that would be the only way to really get on James bad side, he'd 
have
> to *see* for himself that you do wrong by his standards or are bad 
by
> his standards, I think his three friends are testimony to that. 

Potioncat:
One more bit of canon, Sirius, in OoP ch 29 says, just before the 
oddball quote, "Look Harry, James and Snape hated each other from the 
moment they set eyes on each other, it was just one of those things, 
you can understand that can't you? I think James was everything Snape 
wanted to be---"

Sirius says the two boys hated each other from the moment they set 
eyes on each other. Why? Were they standing at the platform, one with 
a sign that said,"Spoiled Rich Kid" and the other "Dark Arts 
Oddball"? Or did they each come with a reputation? And if so, who 
spread the reputation?

Valky: 
> You see, if Peter fooled James for over a decade that he was such a
> nice guy, and Sirius had the worst family reputation of any kid in
> Hogwarts, and Lupin came out of nowhere and had a very dark secret,
> well it stands to reason James didn't judge people on things he 
hadn't
> seen for himself, right?

Potioncat:
Peter was a toady. That relationship doesn't reflect well on James.

 James knew Remus for quite a while before he found out about the 
furry problem. By then he knew and liked the boy. Werewolves are dark 
creatures. Would James have bothered to get to know him if he had 
known he was a werewolf? 

We know about Sirius's family, but did James know before hand? 
Looking at the Black Tree from outside, there are a fair number of 
blood traitors.


One thing that I go back to, is that James hated the Dark 
Arts/Severus was up to his eyeballs.

Why did James know so much about Dark Arts to hate them? Was Dorea 
Black Potter involved? Was someone in his family hurt by them? How 
was Severus so informed about them? Was his Muggle father a shady 
character who encouraged the use of Dark Magic for his own purposes? 
Did Severus seem them as way to protect himself?

And why has no one mentioned the Remus quote from HBP saying that 
young Severus hadn't been as bad as he was made to look? Can anyone 
find that one?

Potioncat.