DADA curse ... Curse, Jinx, and Hex

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 150621

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
>
> > Carol responds:
>  There's the DADA curse, simultaneously working to expose
> > Lupin and to aid Voldemort by returning his servant Wormtail
> > to him. IMO, the DADA curse explains everything--why Lupin 
> > kept the map rather than turning it in to DD and confessing 
> > all his secrets, why Lupin happened to be looking at the map
> > just as Sirius Black/Padfoot was dragging Ron (with Pettigrew
> > in his pocket) into the tunnel, why Lupin left the map open 
> > for Snape to see, why Lupin rushed out without his potion on
> > a full-moon night, why Snape arrived two minutes too late to
> > give it to him, why Lupin transformed when he did, allowing 
> > Pettigrew to escape and restore LV to "human" form. 
> > Coincidence? Not if LV's will in the form of the DADA curse 
> > is at work.
> 
> Pippin:
> That's an awful lot of work for one curse. ...edited...
> 
> I don't think the curse helps LV either, because if it did, it
> should have allowed Quirrell to steal the stone ...

bboyminn:

As usual, I'm going to ramble off on a tangent. I think in this
discussion we/you are using the term 'curse' in the wrong context. I
think the DADA job is not cursed, but Jinxed.

This is somewhat confused because the various 'spell words' overlap
and in the right context each can mean the other. For example, you can
curse someone with a Jinx, or you can jinx someone with a curse, or
you can Hex someone with either a Jinx or a Curse. 

Though I hate to do it, let me post the dictionary definitions of Hex,
Jinx, and Curse.

Hex - n. 1. An evil spell; a curse. 2. One that brings bad luck. 
Hex tr.v. Hexed, Hex·ing, Hex·es. -  1. To put a hex on. 2. To bring
or wish bad luck to...

Jinx -  Informal. n. 1. A person or thing that is believed to bring
bad luck. 2. A condition or period of bad luck that appears to have
been caused by a specific person or thing. 
Jinx tr.v. jinxed, jinx·ing, jinx·es. - To bring bad luck to.

Curse - n. 1.a. An appeal or prayer for evil or misfortune to befall
someone or something. b. The evil or misfortune that comes in or as if
in response to such an appeal: bewailed the curse of ill health. 2.
One that is accursed. 3. A source or cause of evil; a scourge...
Curse v. Cursed or Curst (kûrst), Curs·ing, Curs·es. --tr. 1. To
invoke evil or misfortune upon; damn. 2. To swear at. 3. To bring evil
upon; afflict...

They key point to note is that /Curse/ is related to Evil, and /Jinx/
and /Hex/ are related to Bad Luck.

Again, even I admit that I'm making, or about to make, a very thin
point here.

I think the DADA Job is /Jinxed/ in that who ever takes the job will
suffer a string of specific (yet general) purpose-directed bad luck
that will lead to them having to leave the job. So, while I would say
that the Job is cursed with a Jinx, I would not say that the job is
Cursed. Again, I admit to a subtle difference.

If the job is Jinxed with purpose-directed bad luck then the sequence
of events outlined by Carol at the top of the post is very likely.
Fate or destiny would conspire to mold events into a chain that would
ultimately lead to the downfall of the DADA Professor. 

However, the Jinx does not make those specific events occur. It only
sets up the bad luck that allows those specific events to occur. The
events themselves are irrelevant. The bad luck could have manifested
itself in any number of ways as long as that bad luck is working
toward a specific goal. In a sense, the Jinx only controls the
outcome, and not the specific events that lead to the outcome. 

As Pippin points out, that sequence of events is a lot of work for a
curse (or Jinx, or Hex), and, that is the point I'm making. The Jinx
does not cause those specific events. It sets up a general atmosphere
of bad luck, that allows the characters to make a random (or seemingly
so) series of mistakes and bad choices that when combined lead to the
goal of the Jinx itself which is for the DADA teacher to be gone in a
year, usually in a state of disgrace. Again, it's a very subtle
difference.

I think it the DADA job was truly curse in the most absolute sense of
the word, then each DADA Professor would not have met with bad luck,
but would have met with an evil end. Now some will argue that Quirrel
and Barty!Moody met with evil ends, but I think their evil ends were
caused by their evil lives and not by the Jinx on the DADA job. 

The DADA Jinx served it's purpose and brought each DADA teacher to a
state of disgrace that would have resulted in their removal. However,
not every event is controlled by that Jinx. Their own evil lives took
them that additional step and resulted in Quirrel's death and
Barty!Moody being Dementor Kissed. 

Bad Luck is bad enough, but when combined with evil, it is a dark and
deadly force. So, I can't say that the Jinx didn't contribute to the
retribution of an evil life. It probably did, but I think the direct
affect of the Jinx had run it's course and done it job before each
character met his evil end.

Why does this subtle point matter?

I think too many people are taking the concept of 'curse' too
literally. You are speaking of a curse in the sense that a cast curse
is applied, and trying to make that concept fit the events. But, I
feel the DADA position if only cursed in the most broad and general
sense, and that we are far better served by viewing that curse in the
context of purpose-directed bad luck (a jinx). Purpose-directed bad
luck can explain a lot of events without the need for directly
controlling those events. As in Carol's example, it's difficult to see
a cast curse precisely affecting so many complex events, but in the
context of bad luck affecting the character, that sequense of events
seem more plausable. 

In conclusion, I feel like I've done a lot of talking, but I'm not
sure if I actually said anything. Once again, the distinction I am
making is without question very subtle. So, I can't help but ask, does
anyone see the point I'm trying to make here?

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn