DADA curse ... Curse, Jinx, and Hex

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 150626

Carol earlier:
> >  There's the DADA curse, simultaneously working to expose Lupin
and to aid Voldemort by returning his servant Wormtail to him. IMO,
the DADA curse explains everything--why Lupin kept the map rather than
turning it in to DD and confessing all his secrets, why Lupin happened
to be looking at the map just as Sirius Black/Padfoot was dragging Ron
(with Pettigrew in his pocket) into the tunnel, why Lupin left the map
open for Snape to see, why Lupin rushed out without his potion on a
full-moon night, why Snape arrived two minutes too late to give it to
him, why Lupin transformed when he did, allowing Pettigrew to escape
and restore LV to "human" form. Coincidence? Not if LV's will in the
form of the DADA curse is at work.

<snip Pippin's response>
bboyminn (Steve):
><snip> I think in this discussion we/you are using the term 'curse'
in the wrong context. I think the DADA job is not cursed, but Jinxed.
>
Carol again:
We don't know that, however. Neither word in used with regard to the
HBP scene in which we see Riddle/Voldemort do something with his wand
and DD verifies that Voldemort has indeed made it impossible for him
to retain a DADA teacher for more than a year. All we know is that LV
has placed some sort of spell on the position, with the implication
that it's intended as revenge on Dumbledore and that the consequences
for the teachers who have held the job range from serious to fatal
(worse than death in the case of Barty Jr., who admittedly was not
hired by DD but nevertheless taught the subject).

True, the students believe that the post is "jinxed." Percy repeats
this rumor as early as SS/PS. However, when Harry later (OoP) recites
the fates of those who have held the post since he's attended at
Hogwarts, it would appear that they've suffered something a bit beyond
bad luck. To paraphrase: One dead, one's memory obliterated, one
sacked (and unable to find new employment), one trapped in his own
trunk for ten months, and that's not including Fake!Moody having his
soul sucked out. It also predates Umbridge (also sacked, not to
mention whatever trauma she underwent with the Centaurs) and Snape
with his UV and its consequences. (Harry hopes that this so-called
jinx will kill Snape. I can't remember which word he uses, but if this
is a jinx, it's an evil one.)

Steve:
> This is somewhat confused because the various 'spell words' overlap
> and in the right context each can mean the other. For example, you
can curse someone with a Jinx, or you can jinx someone with a curse,
or you can Hex someone with either a Jinx or a Curse.

Carol:
Yes, I made exactly that point in an earlier post. Logically, hexes
and jinxes ought to be minor, short-lived or easily reversed curses,
with jinxes perhaps applied to objects and hexes to people.
Unfortunately, JKR doesn't follow that logic and there's little or no
consistency in her use of the terms. She seems to prefer alliteration
when possible: Hurling Hex, placed on a broom and capable of killing
or seriously injuring the rider; Confundus Curse for a minor hex (by
my definition) that merely confuses the victim momentarily and seems
to clear up on its own. IIRC, she seems to consider Ginny's Bat-Bogey
Hex a jinx in OoP since the term "jinxed" occurs much more frequently
than "hexed" in that particular book. Apparently, it's a distinction
without a difference.

At any rate, jinxes and hexes *are* curses (spells intended to cause
harm, as distinct from Transfiguration spells or Charms) and most of
them require a countercurse to reverse them. Nor can we say that
curses, as opposed to jinxes and hexes, are Dark, which might offer
another explanation for the use of specific terms. Neither the
Confundus Curse nor the Conjunctivitis Curse (which Sirius Black
intended to suggest to Harry for use against the dragon in GoF)
qualifies as Dark (IMO) though the Unforgiveables and Sectumsempra
certainly do. (Not that JKR has made the meaning of "Dark" exactly
clear, either, but I digress.)

I would argue that to call a spell that can kill or utterly destroy
the holder of a particular teaching position a "jinx" is to
underestimate the power and darkness of that spell--exactly as Percy
does before the curse has destroyed, or rather killed, Quirrell.
(Percy, of course, doesn't know that the spell was placed on the
position by Voldemort himself of he probably wouldn't use that term.)
Granted, all of the DADA teachers so far have experienced bad luck,
but it goes far beyond that. They have in essence destroyed themselves
through bad choices and/or having their own character traits turned
against them. And usually, the DADA curse in some way benefits
Voldemort, sending Wormtail to him in PoA, killing Dumbledore in HBP,
sending Harry to LV in GoF. Fake!Moody wrought his own destruction by
sending Harry to Voldemort. It is not the curse's fault that LV failed
to kill Harry.
> 
Steve:
> Though I hate to do it, let me post the dictionary definitions of
Hex, Jinx, and Curse.
> 
> Hex - n. 1. An evil spell; a curse. 2. One that brings bad luck. 
> Hex tr.v. Hexed, Hex·ing, Hex·es. -  1. To put a hex on. 2. To bring
> or wish bad luck to...

Carol:
So, interchangeable terms, then. A hex, like a jinx, can bring bad
luck (definition 2). "An evil spell; a curse" (definition 1)--a hex
*is* a curse with no distinction. The problem here, of course, is that
by that definition Ginny's Bat-Bogey Hex is evil.

Steve: 
> Jinx -  Informal. n. 1. A person or thing that is believed to bring
> bad luck. 2. A condition or period of bad luck that appears to have
> been caused by a specific person or thing. 
> Jinx tr.v. jinxed, jinx·ing, jinx·es. - To bring bad luck to.

Carol:
The problem with this definition is that it doesn't apply to spells at
all, only to a person or thing that brings bad luck (a "Jonah" on a
sailing ship? a broken mirror?) or to the bad luck itself. To jinx
something is to bring bad luck to it--nothing about a spell. (I always
feel that if I talk about something good before it happens, I'll jinx
it and cause it not to happen.)


> Curse - n. 1.a. An appeal or prayer for evil or misfortune to befall
> someone or something. b. The evil or misfortune that comes in or as
if in response to such an appeal: bewailed the curse of ill health.
<snip def. 2 as inapplicable.)
> Curse <snip verb forms> --tr. 1. To invoke evil or misfortune upon;
damn. 2. To swear at. 3. To bring evil upon; afflict...
> 
Carol:
Okay, no mention of a spell here, either, but surely the appeal for
evil or misfortune to befall the DADA teacher is applicable, as is the
verb form, to invoke evil or misfortune upon (1) or to bring evil upon
(3).

Rather than convincing me that the spell that Voldemort placed on the
DADA position is a mere jinx, just a bit of bad luck, you've further
persuaded me that it's a curse. Without question, evil or misfortune
afflicted all of the DADA teachers, some admittedly more than others.
And Voldemort, being the epitome of evil in the books and enamored of
the Dark Arts, would not fool around with a temporary bit of bad luck.
  Not even Dumbledore, who had to hire a new DADA teacher every year,
could remove the spell, as he certainly could have done if it were a
mere jinx in the sense that you're using the term.

Since in the Potterverse hexes and jinxes *are* curses and since the
terms *tend* to be used for minor or temporary or easily reversed
spells, noneof which applies to the curse that Voldemort placed on the
DADA position, and since the dictionary definition of "curse" fits
better than that of "jinx," I will continue to refer to the DADA
curse. Ask Snape or Lupin if they think that the position was merely
jinxed. I doubtthat they would concur.


> They key point to note is that /Curse/ is related to Evil, and
/Jinx/ and /Hex/ are related to Bad Luck.

Carol:
Um, no. Look again.

Steve:
So, while I would say
> that the Job is cursed with a Jinx, I would not say that the job is
> Cursed. <snipping the stuff on purpose-directed bad luck>

Carol:
So the job is cursed. At least we agree on that. And I think that the
survivors of the position would agree as well. Without the DADA curse,
IMO, Wormtail would not have escaped to resurrect Voldemort and both
Cedric Diggory and Dumbledore would be alive.

Carol, whose original point that the DADA curse neatly explains the
sequence of apparent coincidences leading to the escape of Wormtail
has gotten lost in the semantic shuffle