[HPforGrownups] The Ancient and Noble House of Slytherin

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 150731

Steve:
> Most Slytherins-

> Good Slytherins-
>
> I don't think we need ONE token Good Slytherin, and I don't think we
> need a conversion of all or most Slytherins. I say that if, in the
> absents of Draco's intimidation,

Magpie:
This is one of the major problems I've always had with the "good SlytherinS" 
theory--what intimidation from Draco?  Draco isn't shown to be intimidating 
any Slytherins ever in the story.  In sixth year what presence he has 
significantly shrinks and he's completely isolated.  The other Slytehrins do 
not all have to be DE sympathizers, of course.  But it seems to me that JKR 
has made a point of making the background characters not part of the 
solution.  She even throws in little things like the password for the common 
room being "Pureblood" the first year.We're told Blaise and Harry hate each 
other on principle because of their houses. Blaise was one of the people 
considered a candidate for Good Slytherin and then he shows up casually 
talking about blood traitors.

Sure presumably there are Slytherins who are just keeping to themselves and 
not dreaming about wiping out anybody.  They're not part of the most 
destructive impulses of Slytherin, but I still think they will benefit from 
a change in this aspect of Slytherin.

Steve:
we get /some/ Slytherins who can see
> the folly of following a deranged dictator like Voldemort and join the
> good side to fight against Voldemort, then the four House are united
> as they were meant to be. It's not an all-or-nothing sort of thing.

Magpie:
It's definitely not all or nothing, imo, but I'd say it depends a lot on who 
these people are.  A bunch of new people we've never heard of show up to 
join Harry?  That's been suggested in the past and to me that's no solution 
because it's no story.  I think the houses united means uniting the rift 
we've seen, not just filling out Harry's army with some kids from the 
dungeons or revealing that Auror #3 was in Slytherin.

Joe Goodwin:
  It just seems to me and Snape and Draco both working for the good guys 
after having seen the error of their ways is a good bit too contrived for a 
writer as imaginative as JKR. If that happened I would expect everyone to 
join hands and sing Christmas Carols in Whoville.

Magpie:
I'm honestly surprised by this.  Not because I think either Snape or Draco 
are wonderful people or not potentially Voldemort-loyal, but what is so 
overly happy about this outcome?  I mean, Snape may have already switched 
sides years ago and it didn't make him any more Who-ish.  It's not like, 
knowing JKR, it would be a case of anyone suddenly sprouting a halo.  She'd 
probably put them through hell to earn it first.

I'm even more puzzled by the idea that what should happen is some minor 
Slytherin will politically decide what's best is to work for Harry and then 
that will take care of it because...Who on earth cares?  Why avoid the drama 
of Harry having to work with Draco or friends of Draco who are still loyal 
to Draco to instead of Pansy Parkinson show up, say she's severed ties with 
Draco and decided Harry has the right idea and...what?  What does Pansy add 
to Harry's side?  She's a girl who sometimes offers minor irritation he 
easily brushes aside and has bad taste in boys from his pov.  I don't think 
JKR even has much use for people who do things for political reasons. I 
think she might be happy to let those people just protect themselves and try 
to stay neutral.  She seems more interested in those determined to fight or, 
even more, those who feel they must fight whether they would have wanted to 
or not.  Harry isn't at all inclined to trust Draco at the end of the book, 
but I'm not seeing him sharing the same focus that's common in fandom on 
killing from a distance vs. killing face to face.

Alla:
Who are Helen Keller and Annie Sullivan?

Magpie:
Sorry!  I thought when I said it that I might be being too culturally 
specific.

Helen Keller was a woman born in 1880 in Alabama. When she was a little 
under two years old she got sick and lost her sight and hearing.  When she 
was about 7 her parents hired a governess for her, Annie Sullivan.  Because 
she couldn't hear or see she couldn't communicate with anyone except in very 
basic ways and at that time nobody really thought she could learn to do so. 
But Annie Sullivan insisted on teaching her to fingerspell lots of words. 
Helen was bright and learned better behavior and lots of words, but the 
trick was to get her to understand what the words were, that they referred 
to things in the real world, that the thing she was trouching had a name, 
and this was it.

The big moment (and the climax of the play and movie based on the story, 
"The Miracle Worker") was when one day Helen was running her hand under 
water at the well and Annie, as she'd done a hundred times, spelled 
w-a-t-e-r into her hand.  Only this time she just...got it.  Like a light 
went on behind her eyes and I think she even try to say "water" which was 
one of the few words she'd known before she got sick.  Immediately Helen 
started demanding to know the names for everything, and went on to learn to 
read and write, go to college, writer her autobiography, talk to groups, 
etc.

So in the US that image of "Helen Keller at the Well" kind of stands for 
this breakthrough from being locked in darkness to being in the world, etc. 
:-)

-m