Old, old problem.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 150965

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Dumbledore always believed that Voldemort indeed will be coming 
back 

Dracoenin: 
> What reason did he have, beyond Trelawney's prophecy? 

Alla:

Dumbledore's reasons are never specified (as far as I can remember - 
can be wrong of course), but in light of HBP I think it is a safe 
guess to make that he at least guessed that Voldemort made horcruxes.
 
> Alla:
> > I mean, just look at what happened to Longbottoms, the parents 
of 
> > another prophecy boy. That happened AFTER Voldemort was 
> > supposedly  dead.

Draeconin: 
> I thought the Longbottoms were tortured into catatonia by Voldemort
> himself?

Alla:

Well, that would be a new development. :) But no, again as far as I 
can remember Voldemort was not there. Bella and others were there 
too. As far as we know they tortured Longbottoms  because they 
wanted to find out where Voldemort went. :)

Which is not to say that this event will not bring any new 
discoveries to us, since it is strange on many levels and brought so 
many interesting theories over the years.

The recent cool post on this topic was made by Charme and I am 
kicking myself for not bookmarking it right away, so if anybody has 
the post number will be much appreciated.
 
Alla:
> > But yes, this is to me beyond the realm of possibility. It is 
> > obviously only my opinion, but I never saw Puppetmaster
> > Dumbledore lurking in the shadows of Potterverse.

Draeconin:
> No? To me it seems quite obvious that Dumbledore is very 
manipulative.
>  He's never unkind about it, but it's there.

Alla:

I have to specify. I never saw Evilly Manipulative Dumbledore in the 
books and by evilly manipulative I don't mean DD who is on the Dark 
side, but the one who takes away people's freedom of choice for the 
sake of it.

DD makes HUGE mistakes, many of them, in my book, but I do think 
that he is a good man, who is in charge of Light side and simply 
struggles to juggle too many reponsibilities at the same time, maybe 
that is why he appears to be manipulative to so many people. Not to 
me :)

 
Draeconin:
> Shall we start with Dumbledore's not checking up on Harry's 
welfare in
> almost ten years, nor sending anyone else to do so? He *knows* the
> type of people the Dursleys are, after all. 

Alla:

No argument from me on this one, that was wrong in my book. :) But 
can't you imagine Dumbledore being scared if he does check on Harry, 
Petunia will throw the boy on the streets and then, good bye, blood 
protection.

Draeconin:
> And then we have Snape. Yes, he had a grudge against Harry's 
father,
> and later he has to maintain a look of hostility towards Harry in
> order to preserve his status as a spy, but again Harry is being
> subjected to abuse.  
> 
> Even  a detached Dumbledore, if he's the kindly person he's made 
out
> to be, would have tried to curb that, wouldn't he? And surely the
> other staff have noticed? Why haven't any of them tried to 
intervene?

Alla:

Nods my head in agreement. Hehe. Of course you will get no argument 
from me on this one either - Snape abuses Harry psychologically, 
torments him even.

But don't you see Dumbledore hoping that Snape will finally get to 
know Harry on his own and realising that he is a good kid, that he 
has a kind soul, etc? Don't you see how that could be the main 
reason of DD insisting Snape teaching Harry Occlumency? Because he 
would hope that Snape would see what kind of person Harry is?

After all Dumbledore loves Harry ( and I do believe him now), so I 
think DD hoped that Snape would see it too.

Was it naive? Oh, sure, naive and wrong on so many levels IMO, but I 
cannot fault Dumbledore for that. :)

 
Draeconin: 
> That's part of the problem, though, isn't it. Harry is raised by
> Muggles in such a way that he'd really have little knowledge of 
even
> the way the Muggle world works. Then he's snatched to the Wizarding
> world, and set free to make his own way, with no instruction in how
> THAT world works.  That's not detached, that's... Well, I can't 
recall
> the proper word. 

Alla:

Yes and I always say that I want to strangle Snape every time I read 
the first lesson chapter. It reminds me of the vicious dog attacking 
the child, who got lost in the completely new world and has no clue 
how everything works.

But Harry finds the way eventually, no? What I am trying to say that 
I am convinced that the only reason DD placed Harry with Dursleys 
was to save Harry's life, everything else, I just hope not. :)

 

> > Alla:
> > 
> > Because if he placed Harry for the reason you suggested, IMO he 
is
> > a   monster and somehow I doubt that this is what JKR had in 
mind. 

Draeconin: 
> Perhaps not, but that's what is there.  On the surface Dumbledore 
is a
> kindly old man; but the things he's done or caused to be done!

Alla:

IMO he made mistakes, LOTS of them, HUGE mistakes, but I think he 
did to save Harry.
 
Draeconin:
> Thinking for himself, and I did mention the possible temper (the
> latter of which Harry seems to have anyway). If Dumbledore truly 
did
> believe Harry to be the one to eventually kill Voldemort once and 
for
> all, he'd want a weapon that he - or someone - could control, 
wouldn't he?

Alla:

Why would he want a weapon? Why? Where in the books you see the 
signs that Dumbledore wants the political power? On the contrary he 
did not want to become Minister, etc. I think he would want to help 
Harry to survive the ordeal as best as he can and to live his life 
afterwards.


Draeconin:
> I said nothing about Harry forgetting about them, but don't you 
find
> it rather odd that Harry, even now, has been told so little about 
his
> parents or other family? 
<SNIP>

Alla:

Plot related reasons, I think.

JMO,

Alla