Old, old problem.

[Shamyn D. W.]

No: HPFGUIDX 150970

> Alla:
> I have to specify. I never saw Evilly Manipulative Dumbledore in the 
> books and by evilly manipulative I don't mean DD who is on the Dark 
> side, but the one who takes away people's freedom of choice for the 
> sake of it.

Draeconin:
*confused frown* I don't think I ever made the allegation that
Dumbledore was evil. IMO he was forging the weapon that he believed
would be needed.  He was the hero that defeated Grindlewald, then an
unofficial general of sorts in the first war against Voldemort. You
don't become good at the latter job, anyway, without being able to
look  at people as playing pieces.  You don't want to lose them, but
you do what you believe is necessary in order to win the game.

> DD makes HUGE mistakes, many of them, in my book, but I do think 
> that he is a good man, who is in charge of Light side and simply 
> struggles to juggle too many reponsibilities at the same time, <snip>

Draeconin:
No argument from me, although a couple of my stories take it further,
to a man desperate to remain in control and will do almost anything to
keep it.

> Draeconin:
> > Shall we start with Dumbledore's not checking up on Harry's 
> welfare in
> > almost ten years, nor sending anyone else to do so?
> 
> Alla: 
> No argument from me on this one, that was wrong in my book. :) But 
> can't you imagine Dumbledore being scared if he does check on Harry, 
> Petunia will throw the boy on the streets and then, good bye, blood 
> protection.

Draeconin:
No.  Petunia is, I think, scared almost spitless of him, and would be
terrified of his retaliation were she to do any such thing.

> 
> Draeconin:
> > And then we have Snape. 
> > Even  a detached Dumbledore, if he's the kindly person he's made 
> out
> > to be, would have tried to curb that, wouldn't he? And surely the
> > other staff have noticed? Why haven't any of them tried to 
> intervene?
> 
> Alla:
> But don't you see Dumbledore hoping that Snape will finally get to 
> know Harry on his own and realising that he is a good kid, that he 
> has a kind soul, etc?

Draeconin:
Over how many years? That kind of patience is willing blind
foolishness, if there's no other motive - imo, of course.

> Don't you see how that could be the main 
> reason of DD insisting Snape teaching Harry Occlumency? Because he 
> would hope that Snape would see what kind of person Harry is?

Draeconin:
Looking at Harry and Snape's history, that's optimism indeed.  

> Was it naive? Oh, sure, naive and wrong on so many levels IMO,
> but I cannot fault Dumbledore for that. :)

Draeconin:
I know one person who was put in psychiatric care because he had
problems seeing things realistically.  I'm sorry, but the person
you're painting Dumbledore to be has no business running a school, let
alone a resistance movement.  At least my manipulative Dumbledore
would have the skills and outlook to be able to do those things
properly. And by all accounts, he was fairly good at it - most of the
time. 

Okay, I've changed my mind. There's a third option. Pychologically
challenged Dumbledore.  It fits all the facts so much better! lol

> Alla:
> But Harry finds the way eventually, no?

Draeconin:
Has he? Yes, he knows his magic, but he still has had very little
contact with the Wizarding world outside of Hogwarts, Hogsmeade, and
the Burrow. He's been exposed to Diagon Alley, but hasn't spent much
time there. As for the rest of Wizarding society?  The reasons of
danger aside, he still hasn't had much in the way of exposure to them,
and I'm guessing no in-depth knowledge of how it works. IF he lives
through the war, how is he to fit in afterward?  Rather short-sighted
of some people.

> What I am trying to say that 
> I am convinced that the only reason DD placed Harry with Dursleys 
> was to save Harry's life, everything else, I just hope not. :)

Draeconin:
Yes, I know I brought up only the Dursleys. Sorry it's spread out so
much, but it all ties in with Dumbledore, his methods, and his nature.

> Alla:
> Why would he want a weapon? Why?

Er... Voldemort? Death Eaters?

> Where in the books you see the signs that Dumbledore wants the 
> political power? 

Draeconin:
Where in the world did you get the idea I was referring to politics or
political power?


> :Draeconin
> > I thought the Longbottoms were tortured into catatonia by Voldemort
> > himself?
>
> Geoff:
> No.  canon is very clear about this:

> "Yes, they were talking about Neville's parents," said Dumbledore.
"His father, Frank, was
> an Auror just like Professor Moody. He and his wife were tortured
for information about
> Voldermort's whereabouts after he lost his powers as you heard."
<snip>

Draeconin:
Ah. Thank you. Don't know how I overlooked that - unless it was in
book five or six. Didn't care much for either of those, and wanted to
forget them.