Christianity in HP? (WAS: Dumbledore's Death)

[Tonks]

No: HPFGUIDX 151118

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Miles" <miles at ...> wrote:
>
> I don't see any contradiction between "JRK is a Christian, she uses
> Christian symbols and transports a Christian message" and "Harry 
Potter is universal and its message is as well". 
(Snip)
Don't misunderstand me: I do think that Rowling's faith is important 
>for Harry Potter, and for me the truth of Christian faith is not 
>watered-down by its universal qualities, on the contrary the truth 
>is deepened. But I think it's important that Harry Potter is for 
>all people, not only for Christians.

Tonks:
I completely agree with this. I have never disagreed with this. The 
point that I have been trying to make is that it seems that when I 
point out certain Christian symbols and themes (and I am not talking 
about morals or moral theology at all), it does not seem to be taken 
well on this list and I do not totally understand why.  It is as if 
people fear that if it can be proven that she has deliberately used 
symbols and themes from Christianity in the ways of Lewis and 
Tolkien that it will no longer be the same series of books that we 
have all come to love. I find this puzzling. 

Yes, many of the symbols are ones that have been adapted by 
Christianity and are older than Christianity. But that is not 
exactly what I am trying to point out. Obviously I have not been 
expressing this well. There is a way in which she has written the 
books and certain scenes in the books that can not possible be 
interpreted in any other way than to say that she took it straight 
from the Gospel accounts of Jesus' last days. She has disguised it 
just enough so that someone not familiar with the Christian faith 
would not see it. And even those who do know the story would be so 
involved with the characters and story that she is telling that they 
would not step back and look at the framework to see what it is that 
she has done.


> Tonks:
> I think the message as I said before is a
> universal one, but that does not negate the fact that while she 
uses many symbols that are part of the collective unconscious, she is
> also using symbols and ways of putting them together that can not 
be interpreted in any other way then by the Gospels.

Miles
... disagrees here.
>I'd be happy if you could point out symbols and combinations that 
>are "originally" Christian. I doubt very much you can find very 
>much, if any. (Snip)


Tonks:
It is the totality of all of the symbols. Taken one by one they can 
be something else, something from here and there. But as a whole, 
certain parts of the story can only be seen in one way, IMHO.  I 
will prepare a post to prove my point within canon (both of them).

Let me just say that it means nothing to me if the HP books have 
been written as Christian literature or not.  I do not read fiction 
normally.  I did not pick up these books looking for anything.  But 
it just jumped out at me. OK, I guess I could just be crazy, but I 
am 58 years old and never been on psychotropic meds yet, so I think 
I can past that test too. ;-) 

I will take some time and present a case for the jury and you can 
judge for yourselves.  As I have said there may be other things from 
other religions too that are not clear to me. IF anyone sees them 
please tell us.

Tonks_op