Scene with likeable James WAS: Re: Eileen Pince

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 156361

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Joe Goodwin <joegoodwin1067 at ...>
wrote:
>
> 
> 
>   I went back and read the Pensieve scene and it looks like Snape
went for his wand first. James and Sirius stood up. There was no
mention of their having drawn wands. Then James said "All right there
Snivellus?" and Snape went for his wand.
> 
>   So it was obvious that James and Sirius were going to confront him
on some level but it was Snape who went for his wand first. So tell
me, is Snape now the bully because he resorted to magic first? Or he
tried to.
> 
>   I also noticed something I had never noticed before. Harry states
during the Pensieve scene that Snape is clearly unpopular. There were
some people a few threads ago saying their was no canon for Snape's
not being liked by anyone other than the Marauders but it seems there is.
> 
>

the actual passage 
"Snape was on his feet again, and was stowing the O.W.L. paper in his
bag.  As he emerged from the shadows of the bushes and set off across
the grass, Sirius and James stood up.  Lupin & Wormtail remained
sitting.  Lupin was still staring down at his book, although his eyes
were not moving and a faint frown line had appeared between his
eyebrows.  Wormtail was looking from Sirius and James to Snape with a
look of avid anticipation on his face.
"All right, Snivellus?" said James loudly.
Snape reacted so fast it was as though he had been expecting an
attack.  Dropping his bad, he plunged his hand inside of his robes,
and his wand was halfway into the air when James shouted, "Expelliarmus!"

now, based on that passage - with the look of disapproval(frown lines)
on Lupin's face and Wormtail's look of glee on his and Snape's
reaction - it seems that James & Sirius did this type of ambush to
Snape frequently.   James called out to Snape, not using Snape's name,
but an insulting nickname - loudly and clearly for all to hear.  A
challenge, so to speak.  Snape went on the defensive by trying to get
his wand out, but James, although not mentioned, must have had his
wand out already, as I doubt that 5th years had learned yet to cast a
spell without a wand.  

with or without the wand, James initiated this scene, goaded on by
Sirius and Wormtail.   This is bullying.  Regardless of past
altercations, Snape was minding his own business.  Sirius was *bored*
to tears and James made things lively for the group, by starting the
attack - James provoked it.  Not Snape.  Snape would have probably
walked on by without a word.  Lupin doesn't say anything, but his
disapproval is written on his face, and he seems to be afraid to say
anything - is it because he worries that his friends won't like him
anymore?  That they will let slip his secret?  Peer Pressure is a
horrible thing at that age.  Say the wrong thing and you are dumped
like a hot potatoe.

As far as the observers not liking Snape or their behavior makes Snape
to be unpopular, there is a passage that leds me to believe that some
of the students were also afraid of James & Sirius - " Some looked
apprehensive, others entertained"  Another passage states that "may of
surrounding watchers laughed, Sirius & Wormtail included, but Lupin,
still apparently intent on his book, didn't, and neither did Lily"

I remember middleschool & grade school and bullying was also done by
girls.  I was picked on, because I was small and wore glasses, by a
BIG girl(not fat) and got my face punched in for no reason at all.  I
never spoke to her, never said anything to her, but for some reason,
she wanted to rearrange my face.  Only one person had the guts to
stand up to her, but that didn't work.  After the fight, if you can
call it that as I am creampuff, and after that girl walked away
laughing, some people came out of the woodwork to help me up and get
me home.  Their excuse for not helping me?  They were afraid they
would be targeted next by this girl if they tried to take my side.  I
understood - heck, I tried to avoid this girl all the time by lying low.

I see the same thing here in the scene.  I think that there were some
people who didn't like Snape, some people who did like Snape, but were
too scared for their own skins to help him at the time.

Bullies are bullies - I don't care if they are beautiful people or
not.  In this scene, James & Sirius were the ones that started the
attack.    Lupin knew it to be wrong, as did Lily.  Perhaps Snape's
attacks on James & Sirius was in reaction to their picking on him.  I
don't know.  But to paint this scene as something else is just
excusing bad behavior.

colebiancardi
(there is a reason why the term "frat boy" is not considered a good
term.  I consider James & Sirius, at that point in their lives, to be
frat boys.  They did grow out of it, at least James did.  I don't
think Sirius ever really did)