Eileen Prince

[dungrollin]

No: HPFGUIDX 156425

All snipped and rearranged to try to put it in some semblance of 
order, and apologies in advance, but all I'm doing is sniping, 
giving reasons why I'm not convinced. But since you want to keep 
the discussion about Eilieen alive, perhaps you won't mind too 
much...

Abergoat: 
I am not suggesting she wanted to find it [the CoS]. I'm merely 
suggesting she MIGHT have helped Tom Riddle find it. If she is 
interested in books he may have seen her often in the library - 
given Voldemort's knowledge I'm sure he spent a fare bit of time 
checking out books. And Tom Riddle was a charmer, I'm sure Eileen 
was horrified by what happened if she was in anyway involved. 

Dungrollin:
And all that guff that DD gives us about Tom Riddle always having 
worked alone, having been independent enough to get all his things 
from Diagon Alley alone at the age of 11? 

Abergoat:
But the tie in that I'm certain has a good possiblity of being what 
JKR uses is Eileen, Hagrid and Myrtle. They are only one year apart 
if not the same year. And I suspect someone gave Dumbledore 
information to use in defense of Hagrid. And JKR even slipped in 
the information that Myrtle didn't stay at Hogwarts at the 
beginning - she went off to haunt Olivia Hornsby (or something like 
that). How convenient.

Dungrollin:
I don't think anybody could have talked to Myrtle's ghost, 
particularly not DD, because they would then have had a shrewd 
idea where the entrance to the chamber was. Throughout CoS it 
wouldn't have been too difficult to post a guard (move a portrait, 
perhaps) outside the door to Myrtle's bathroom, and notice that 
Ginny Weasley went in and out at rather suspicious moments. But 
nobody did, so I can't imagine they talked to Myrtle about her 
death. (Goodness only knows why, perhaps DD, being a teacher and 
male to boot, never knew that Myrtle had taken up haunting that 
girls' bathroom, though since she was officially sent back to 
haunt Hogwarts by the Ministry, you'd think he'd have heard and 
investigated.)

Also, I don't see that anybody necessarily had any information with 
which to defend hagrid, he was expelled, and his wand was snapped 
in two. At the age of 13 it's not *that* surprising that he didn't 
go to Azkaban. All we have canon for is that DD intervened with 
Professor Dippet to get him the gamekeeper's job (though again, 
we're not quite sure how and when, because Mrs Weasley says that 
when she was at Hogwarts the gamekeeper was called Ogg.)

Abergoat:
Eileen, possibly Dog Lady at St. Mungo's 
<Snip>
There is pretty much no part of the main plotline that I cannot 
have tie into the idea that Snape is bent on revenge (and consumed 
by hate) in his quest to avenge his mother. 

It can even explain a visit to the St. Mungo's locked ward in a 
book that is considered overly long but JKR has said she doesn't 
think she could have cut anything out. Seeing the Longbottoms was 
moving, but I don't see why it was strictly necessary for the 
overall plot. We know they aren't going to do anything themselves. 

Dung:
Sorry, but Eileen can't be doglady at St. Mungo's, she's called 
Agnes (OotP, ch23:p452, UK ed.)

Abergoat:
But the basis for Dumbledore's trust in Snape? That is the HUGE 
outstanding question and unrequited love or regret for romantic 
love lost doesn't fit with JKR's focus that good and evil in large 
part stem from one's childhood and whether one was loved by 
parents.

A group I posted with on a forum toyed with the idea that Eileen 
had > a Ravenclaw wand relic taken from her by Voldemort. Then Irma 
and > Filch (relatives of Eileen or Tobias) 'filched' the wand back 
(now a > horcrux) and Irma is hiding it in her featherduster. So 
Filch's > prowling is more for the protection of Irma and the wand 
than students.

Abergoat sighs: A little too far-fetched for everyone? Too bad. At 
least it fits with the tarot theory of 'sword, coins, cup and 
wand'.

Dungrollin:
Now, I have to say I have nothing against the idea of Snape hell-
bent on revenge against Voldy for the murder of Eileen, but I doubt 
it's due to a Hotbrunch. Firstly, I think DD was right when he said 
that nobody but Voldemort, he, and Harry (and possibly Slughorn, 
who's not *too* dim) and obviously now Ron and Hermione know about 
them. Which doesn't preclude that other characters (I'm mostly 
thinking Snape here) won't figure out their existence before the 
end of book 7. 

Secondly, are you suggesting that Voldy *knew* Eileen (and/or 
others) had pinched his hors-tax, killed Eileen (but nobody else) 
and then *didn't* get around to finding out what she'd done with it 
and killing all those involved? (While we're at it, I'm not sure 
that Filch, as a squib, would have been much use in getting hold of 
this Horsecrutch, given the kinds of protections we saw around the 
locket in HBP).  

And thirdly, the 'tarot theory' may well be right on the money, but 
I have absolutely no patience with tarot or astrology in real life, 
let alone in a fictional series in which the divination teacher is 
clearly depicted as a complete fraud. If JKR backtracks on her and 
DD's opinion of divination (aside from the apparently 'real' 
prophecies which nevertheless aren't guaranteed to come true) I 
shall be sorely disappointed in her. So, you might well be right, 
but I reserve the right to not like it at all!

Oh. Oh oh oh. I've just had a thought. It's only tangentially 
related to Eileen, but what if... what if... the parallels between 
Snape and Harry, particularly their childhoods, are more obvious 
than anything we suspected? What if Eileen was indeed murdered by 
Voldy, or on Voldy's orders, and Snape grew up with his aunt. His 
aunt Irma. Who despised her sister for having married a Muggle who 
abandoned her, and therefore hated her only son, the little half-
blood Prince and made him live in a cupboard under the stairs... Oh 
can you hear those mournful violins? 


A long way up-thread...
Abergoat:
I got carried away. My point is that if Hagrid owed Eileen a favor
because of her support Hagrid would have befriended young Snape.
Hagrid may know Snape VERY well indeed. And Snape IS one if the few
professors we know of that will search the forest (end of OoP - 
even with the Grawp there and the angry centaurs). Snape may well 
have spent time in those woods...with Hagrid.

Dungrollin:
So... what do you think Hagrid made of the enmity between Snape and 
the Marauders? Because he does seem to have liked James an awful 
lot. Do you think it's possible to have liked both?

Dung