Eileen Prince

[abergoat]

No: HPFGUIDX 156435

Abergoat says:
Potioncat, good set of questions. I agree we don't know much about
Eileen. But we do know she has the potential to tie Snape to Hagrid
and Voldemort and thus may ultimately tie Snape to Harry. In addition
Eileen is a very believable source of Dumbledore's trust in Snape and
fits JKR's statment that the 'Half-Blood Prince' is a strand of the
overall plot. I think that is a highly compeling reason to speculate
on her.

Tinytonks, as the starter of my favorite thread it is good to see you
repost! I don't have any strong feelings on Gran Longbottom versus
Eileen so it will be interesting to see where you go with it.

Dungrollin wrote:
> All snipped and rearranged to try to put it in some semblance of
> order, and apologies in advance, but all I'm doing is sniping,
> giving reasons why I'm not convinced. But since you want to keep
> the discussion about Eilieen alive, perhaps you won't mind too
> much...


Abergoat responds:
Not at all. You are quite right, I'm just happy to discuss her even if
people disagree. Skepticism is good - none of us have any idea what
book 7 will contain. Although I would say some things have a better
chance than others.

Dungrollin wrote:
> And all that guff that DD gives us about Tom Riddle always having
> worked alone, having been independent enough to get all his things
> from Diagon Alley alone at the age of 11?

Abergoat responds:
But I didn't say he worked 'with' her, did I? I think he used her,
just like he used Hepizbah Smith. And that whole line of thought was
idle speculation. What I don't think is idle speculation - and seems
to be supported by Hagrid's attitude towards Snape and Snape's towards
Hagrid - is that Eileen was involved in Hagrid's defense and she may
have been friends with him.

Dungrollin wrote:
> I don't think anybody could have talked to Myrtle's ghost,
> particularly not DD, because they would then have had a shrewd
> idea where the entrance to the chamber was.

Abergoat responds:
But that was my point, wasn't it? I state that Eileen talked to Myrtle
but no one else did because Myrtle had left the castle to haunt Olivia
Hornsby. So just like in PoA it was the word of a 12/13 year girl
against the word of (in this case) the headmaster's favorite student.
She lost, but she planted enough doubt that Dumbledore was able to
persuade Dippet to allow Hagrid to stay on rather than being sent to
some other institution. I doubt she got many details out of Myrtle -
just the eyes.

Dung wrote:
> Sorry, but Eileen can't be doglady at St. Mungo's, she's called
> Agnes (OotP, ch23:p452, UK ed.)

Abergoat responds:
Peter Pettigrew was a rat called Scabbers for most of the first three
books. Agnes (I have mentioned the problem of the name before) seems
to only be able to bark. If they didn't know who she was when she
arrived then she would have been given a convenient name. JKR did a
good job of indicating the nurses at St. Mungo's were overworked. If
my speculation is true (and it is probably not) then St. Mungo's
didn't figure out Eileen's name until Snape showed up as a 13 or 14
year old boy. I speculate Eileen had been in the ward being called
Agnes for well over a decade by that point. The nurses may have had a
hard time changing habits - or perhaps they didn't try figuring she
has the tought processes of a dog.

Dungrollin wrote:
> Now, I have to say I have nothing against the idea of Snape hell-
> bent on revenge against Voldy for the murder of Eileen, but I doubt
> it's due to a Hotbrunch. 

Abergoat responds:
And I agree. Because I don't think anyone has any idea why Eileen was
attacked. Because only Snape (and his confidantes) KNOW she was
attacked. Everyone else just thinks her current form is a mistake of
her own making. Now it is possible that Dumbledore started to be
suspicious once if found out about the horcruxes but Dumbledore is
actually similar to Voldemort, he doesn't share that much. And we saw
Dumbledore pause about giving Snape's story to Harry - I think he
thought about telling Harry about Eileen and his suspicion that she
was a horcrux victim but decided that Harry's hate is too strong at
the moment. I suspect Dumbledore believes Harry's attitude will change
as he learns Snape's story on his own. Piece by piece.

Dungrollin wrote:
> If JKR backtracks on her and
> DD's opinion of divination (aside from the apparently 'real'
> prophecies which nevertheless aren't guaranteed to come true) I
> shall be sorely disappointed in her. So, you might well be right,
> but I reserve the right to not like it at all!

And you have that right ;). But I will say I've managed to spin even
the prophecy into the Eileen theory such that JKR won't backtrack at
all. It was people's actions on the prophecy, not fate itself. And I
consider this proof that Dumbledore would NEVER share the prophecy
with anyone, especially not the Potters or Longbottoms, prior to
Godric's Hollow. To do so would be giving the prophecy validation. I
seriously doubt Dumbledore would do that. Fear was running high already.

Dungrollin wrote:
> What if Eileen was indeed murdered by Voldy, or on Voldy's orders, 
> and Snape grew up with his aunt. His aunt Irma. Who despised her 
> sister for having married a Muggle who abandoned her, and therefore 
> hated her only son, the little half-blood Prince and made him live 
> in a cupboard under the stairs...

Abergoat wrote:
Hmm, now we've moved on to sarcasm? ;) But I'll play along. You'll
have to give me a reason for Voldemort to attack her. Given she is
married to a muggle and most of Voldemort's early followers were
brought in because of bigotry I'm afraid you cannot sell me on the
idea that Voldemort wanted her as a follower and she refused. Killing
her for having married a muggle is possible. Although I seriously
doubt Voldemort would do it personally.

Dungrollin wrote:
> So... what do you think Hagrid made of the enmity between Snape and
> the Marauders? Because he does seem to have liked James an awful
> lot. Do you think it's possible to have liked both?

Considering Hagrid seems to love Harry but still insists Harry is
wrong about Snape I cannot see that this idea should take much of a
stretch.

Abergoat