OFH SNAPE was: Script from JKR's reading/ About Snape and Dumbledore

[snow15145]

No: HPFGUIDX 156936




> >>Snow:
> Again open to interpretation. Dumbledore says he `believes' that 
> this is why Snape acted in such a manner


Betsy Hp:
But isn't this what we're talking about? How *Dumbledore* sees 
Snape? How much and why Dumbledore trusts him?

Snow:

Yes it is. It is the `why' that counts. Dumbledore could trust Snape 
completely if he realizes that Snape has no other recourse. If Snape 
wants out of the Voldy clan then he doesn't want to go back and could 
therefore be completely trusted
or can he? Yes and no, he can be 
trusted to the extent that their main objectives are the same but 
getting there is another story. Dumbledore's man had quite a failing 
when he refused Harry Occlumency lessons. 


> >>Snow:
> Dumbledore also stated that an old man makes mistakes therefore I 
> would conclude that you believe everything that Dumbledore has 
> said and Nagini is definitely a Horcrux >g<

Betsy Hp:
Ah, but I do believe that Dumbledore is *honest* about what he 
says. If he says he believes something is so, then that is what he 
believes. He might be mistaken, but that's his honest (though 
perhaps not complete, the sly fox <g>) assesment.

Snow:

See that's the thing, Dumbledore does make a big mistake because he 
trusts Snape completely. Dumbledore allowed Snape to teach Harry 
Occlumency because he trusted Snape so completely that he 
forgot "that some wounds run too deep for the healing". If Snape were 
Dumbledore's man I would think he could have overcome his hatred for 
James for Dumbledore's sake and the greater good. Go one step further 
here and ask yourself why, if he hated James so much, Snape gave 
Dumbledore the information about Voldemort's plan to attack James and 
Lily? Love of Lily is one explanation; Snape saving his own hide is 
another. Or?

> >>Snow:
> Dumbledore surely trusts Snape to the degree that he has stated 
> but why does he trust Snape completely is the answer I was 
> approaching. Dumbledore trusts Snape completely because he 
> realizes that no matter what; Snape has to save Harry to save 
> himself. Snape is tied into the cause, not because he wants to be 
> but because he has to be to protect his own best interest.

Betsy Hp:
How do you get that out of "completely"? If Snape doesn't kill 
Harry *only* because Harry is fated to kill Voldemort shouldn't 
Dumbledore tell Harry that "When it comes to your safety, I trust 
Severus Snape" or something along those lines? 

I think it can be argued (though I'd disagree with it <g>) that 
Snape should *not* be trusted completely. But Dumbledore is pretty 
clear in stating that he *does* trust Snape that much. There's 
nothing in the texts that suggest to me that Dumbledore sees Snape 
as a Death Eater on a leash.

Snow:

I feel that is exactly what Dumbledore is saying to Harry; Snape will 
protect you because there is no one else that can put the baddy to 
bed. 

Snape can be completely trusted because he wants the same objective; 
Voldemort needs to be taken down. And it would be former-deatheater-
on-a-leash ;)

> >>Snow:
> <snip>
> I will however submit for your scrutiny a quote from Dumbledore 
> during this same scene that tells me that Dumbledore still 
> questions Snape:
> 
> POA pg 390 "I suppose he's told you the same fairy tale he's 
> planted in Potter's mind?" spat (look at this spat) 
> Snape. "Something about a rat, and Pettigrew being alive-"
> "That, indeed, is Black's story," said Dumbledore, surveying Snape 
> closely through his half-moon spectacles. 
> 
> Oh yeah, Dumbledore is doing his Legilimence on Snape. This is the 
> person that he supposedly trusts emphatically but he still needs 
> to keep a check on him, why? 

Betsy Hp:
As Carol points out, Dumbledore also keeps a similarly close check 
on Harry at times. Especially, I think, when Harry's emotions are 
running high. Could Dumbledore be so very alert (I'm not sure I'm 
ready to say Legilimency is going on here) about Snape's state 
because he's a bit *worried* about him? Dumbledore *must* have some 
idea of the bad blood between Snape and the Marauders. I think he's 
aware that the loss of Black, the *innocence* of Black is going to 
hit Snape hard.

Snow:

Dumbledore keeps a check on Harry through Legilimency to keep a check 
on Voldemort. Dumbledore wouldn't teach Occlumency to Harry, or even 
look at him in his fifth year, because he saw Voldemort lurking. 
Dumbledore is trusting but he isn't stupid. 

Betsy Hp:
Thanks! <g> But I'm not actually using Lupin's lying as evidence. 
I'm trying to *cut down* the only evidence suggesting Snape was hurt 
of the loss of the Order of Merlin by questioning the veracity of 
the only character to raise that possibility. (I'm pretty sure 
Pippin is well aware of the many, many times Lupin has obfuscated a 
few facts in his polite, befuddled, sort of way. <g>)

Snow:

The loss of the Order of Merlin is but an aside. It is a perk to 
Snape to prove that he was not cowardly in leaving Voldemort. The 
Marauders teased him and called him Snivellus during his school 
years, which may have prompted him to go to Voldemort in the first 
place, to prove himself.  


Cheers

Snow