OFH SNAPE was: Script from JKR's reading/ About Snape and Dumbledore

[wynnleaf]

No: HPFGUIDX 157040


> wynnleaf:
  Dumbledore thought
> >Snape should return to Voldemort as a spy and Snape did it, no
> >questions asked.

> 
> PJ:
> 
> It almost feels like we're reading two different stories....
> 
> Don't you think your point of view sweeps Snape's importance to 
the 
> storyline under the rug?  I mean, to do everything that Dumbledore 
tells him 
> without any input gives Snape no credit for the intelligence and 
cunning 
> we're shown he possesses over and over again! 

wynnleaf,
No, I don't think we were reading different books -- maybe just 
different posts.  I was concerned at first that perhaps I had 
actually said that Snape did everything DD told him to without input 
or question.  I was sure I remembered saying that Snape was the only 
staff member who we see openly disagree with DD, and I felt certain 
that I the only thing I said Snape did without question was going 
back to spy on LV.  Fortunately, I looked back on my post and was 
gratified to find I was correct.  That's what I said.  I never said 
Snape gives no input.

PJ
 Why would JKR bother to show 
> us this if he was nothing more than Dumbledore's lackey?   No, 
rather than 
> just doing Dumbledore's bidding, I think he is deeply involved in 
> *formulating* those plans - working in tandem rather than just 
doing what 
> he's told.

wynnleaf
Yep, that's what I think, too.  However, on going back to spy on LV 
at the end of GOF -- they may have discussed it previously, and 
probably did, but when they knew LV had actually come back and the 
time of action was upon them, Snape just said he was ready and went 
without question.  It is, after all, there in canon.

PJ
> I don't like Snape and I don't think Snape is DDM! but I see him 
as much 
> more actively involved than you do. 

wynnleaf
Probably not.  You just didn't read my post well enough.  Remember, 
I pointed out that he disagrees openly with DD far more than other 
staff members, and perhaps (although I didn't say this in my last 
post) more than the Order members apparently.  So he's definitely 
giving input.  Plus we know he brings back reports to the Order.

PJ
 It's only logical that if you're 
> expected to do the dirty, dangerous work then you'd insist on 
hashing that 
> plan out *in depth* before sticking your neck out in any way.  You 
wouldn't 
> simply follow someone else blindly - not unless you were 
suicidal....  In 
> some ways he knows LV/DE's better than Dumbledore does and his 
input would 
> certainly be necessary for any plan to work.

wynnleaf
Agreed

PJ
> He's no one's puppet which is really the whole *point* of OFH!
Snape.

wynnleaf,
Once again, please remember that it was only about DD telling him 
that he needed him to go back as a spy at the end of GOF where I 
said he did it without question.  Perhaps it would be even more 
correct to say that he apparently did it without hesitation.

By the way, I note that you don't comment on the disposition of 
Snape toward DD that he would seem to rather die than AK 
Dumbledore.  As I said at the end of my last post, this, more than 
even the other actions which indicate great commitment, seems to 
indicate a strong commitment to Dumbledore personally.  After all, 
it seems odd that Snape would actually argue with Dumbledore over 
Snape not wanting to AK Dumbledore, which would result in Snape's 
death, if Snape actually disliked Dumbledore.  And even if the 
forest conversation was not about that, if DD's "please Severus" was 
having to plead with Snape to AK him, that clearly indicates that 
Snape didn't want to AK DD.  And *that* means that Snape would 
rather choose to die than kill DD, even with DD telling him to do 
it.  That's really hard for me to believe if Snape dislikes 
Dumbledore.

wynnleaf