OFH SNAPE was: Script from JKR's reading/ About Snape and Dumbledore

[lanval1015]

No: HPFGUIDX 157080

>Marion:

> Snape could've whistled down a Dementor at that moment, point to 
the Shrieking Shack, say "they're in there, guv'nor" and get praise 
from the whole WW, but for one pesky thing: the three children are 
trapped between a mass-murder and his buddy, the manical, soon to 
transform, werewolf.
> Snape legs it to the Shrieking Shack.

Lanval:
Wrong. I made the same mistake in a post once, and it was kindly 
pointed out to me that Snape only sees Lupin running down the 
passage. The Shack itself is not on the Map. Once Snape got to the 
Willow, he found the Invisibility Cloak and figured out that Harry 
must be around as well. Sorry, your Hero!Snape, Fearless Savior of 
Bratty Stoopid Children, does not hold up.

(By the way, how do you suggest Snape 'whistle down' a Dementor? Why 
would a Dementor listen to him?)  



>Marion:
> Now, he *could* perhaps run to the Shack, holding a goblet of 
potion, enter the Shack, give the accomplice of a murderer the goblet 
(hope it didn't spill on the way, well, he did slow down a bit so it 
wouldn't spill... hope the kids aren't killed yet) saying something 
like, "Here you are, Lupin, your wolfsbane. Please drink it so you 
won't turn into a snarling monster. You don't want to tear these 
kiddies to shreds, do you? Well, you're here as the aider and abetter 
of Black, who is here to kill off the last of the Potters, mad 
traitorous murderer that he is, so I suppose you're going to kill the 
kiddies and me in a spot anyway, but you *much* rather be killing us 
whilst looking human, hm?"
> Or, he could leave the potion, leg it to the Shack, hold the 
murderer and his minion at wand-point, get the kids out of there and 
deal with the two dastardly villains when the kids are out of danger.
> 
> He does the last.


Lanval:
Indeed he does not. At least not quite. He runs to the Shack, 
gleefully aware that he's going to catch Lupin doing a Bad Thing. And 
most likely his old nemesis Black will be there as well. Vengeance, I 
believe, is the word here.

Snape says as much once he gets to the Shack. Please show me one 
shred of canon evidence that the children's welfare was first and 
foremost on Snape's mind when he set out for the Willow.

"'Two more for Azkaban tonight,' said Snape, his eyes now gleaming 
fanatically."

PoA, Scholastic, p.359   Quite self-explanatory, really.


>Marion:
> Alas, no good deed ever goes unpunished. Whilst trying to get Harry 
Potter to safety, Harry, being Harry (i.e. stubborn, disobedient and 
stoopid) won't budge (doesn't know how dangerous Lupin is. Doesn't 
know how dangerous Black is. Does know he resents his ugly, strict, 
sarcastic teacher and likes to disobey him on principle alone). 
> 

Lanval:
Funny, isn't it? Especially since Stoopid!Harry is RIGHT. Black IS 
innocent. Let me repeat that: Sirius Black is innocent.

And Snape is WRONG.


>Marion:
> Now, if *I* were Snape, I would've AK-ed both Black and Lupin in a 
second.

Lanval:
Let me get this straight: you're thoroughly disgusted because a kid 
disrespects his teacher, but this teacher (or should I say this 
former Death Eater?) killing two men in cold blood (by means of an 
Unforgivable Curse no less) is fine and dandy with you?


>Marion
 I'd probably get a reward for Black ('dead or alive', wasn't it?)

Lanval:
Maybe you can point us to that particular part in the book? I've 
asked his before; does it ever say that the civilian population of 
the WW was authorized to use an AK on Sirius Black?

>Marion:
 and bagging his werewolf helper on a night of a full moon can't be 
seen as murder, surely. But Snape has but one priority: getting the 
kids out of there and subdueing Black and Lupin.

Lanval:
Sure it was. That's why he told the kids to get out *immediately* 
upon entering the Shack (and far be it from him to stand there 
listening for what, six pages of dialogue?), and why he seemed so 
honestly concerned for their welfare, avoiding any sort of silly 
delay, such as gloating over having finally caught Lupin and Black in 
the act... oh, right.


> Marion:
> I see a man who is dangerous getting a job as a teacher on the 
stict condition that he takes his medicine. He would be too much of a 
danger to the children otherwise. Wanna bet that Dumbledore gave 
Snape the order "You will brew his this potion, Severus, and you will 
see to it that he *drinks* it. I won't endanger the children, but 
that means he *must* take it. You above all others know how dangerous 
Lupin can be, dear boy.."

Lanval:
Since neither you nor I have ever been inside JKR's brain, bets are 
hardly a good idea. That's very much *your* Dumbledore speaking here, 
and he bears no relation to canon!DD.

>Marion:
> People in the fandom tend to see werewolves as AIDS patients: 
shunned, harmless, misunderstood.
> Red Hen likenes Lupin to a schizophrenic, who doesn't want to take 
his medicine because it makes him feel unlike himself.

Lanval:
Really? Well, I guess one CAN decide to disregard canon entirely.


>Marion:
> I tend to liken them to pedophiles. 
> 
> Yes, that's a nasty thing to say, but I'm saying it to make a 
point. I'll explain further on. And no, I'm not in any way claiming 
that Lupin abuses children. 

Lanval:
Then what is your point, beside the obvious (Lupin/Sirius = bad, 
Snape = good, Harry = STOOPID)? It hasn't escaped too many readers 
over the age of twelve that Greyback has all the hallmarks of a Pedo; 
that's hardly an original point to make.

Hence if you're not claiming that *Lupin* is a pedophile, doing 
pedophiliac things, then why liken him to one? 

Oh, and one more thing: it's no accident that Fandom has made the 
AIDS/infectious disease comparison, because the author herself has 
done so.


>Marion:
> Now suppose a young boy got accosted at school once by one of those 
beasts. It was hushed up, of course, the school didn't need the bad 
publicity. Twenty years later, the boy has become a teacher and lo 
and behold, his one time accoster turns up as an interim teacher as 
well. The head of the school, knowing of the new 
teacher's 'affiction', agrees to hire him on the condition that he 
takes drugs to 'curb his urges'. The one to administer them to him is 
his one-time victim, because a) he makes the stuff and b) the matter 
was hushed up; not many know of the man's affliction.
> Now, picture the whole scene again, with this in mind.
> 
> One-time victim of pedophile teacher comes to bring him drugs to 
render him temporarily safe for the children he has to teach.
> Pedophile teacher gives 'special lessons' to a boy, who's there 
when one-time victim enters with the medicine.
> Pedophile teacher looks his one-time victim in the face, smiles, 
and says, "Oh, just put it there. I will take it when you're gone."
> 
> Doesn't sound *half* as nice anymore, does it?

Lanval:
Doesn't even have anything to do with HP. Lupin has never shown any 
tendency to target children, Snape and Lupin are the same age, and it 
was Snape who 'accosted' Lupin, trying to find out his secret. Read 
the book.

>Marion: 
> No, I'm not saying Lupin is a pedophile, nor that he wants to do 
anything with Harry. I'm just trying to look at what *really* happens 
without letting preconceived notions cloud my eyes.

Lanval:
As opposed to those of us whose eyes have been clouded by the 
author's cunning plan to force us to like Lupin, that beast? Woes!
Canon, by the way, is your friend when it comes to trying to look at 
what 'really happens'.

I also suppose Rowling's remark (sorry, can't find the exact quote 
right now) that she'd like Lupin as a teacher(both for herself as a 
child, and for her daughter) means very little to you?

> Marion:
> Lupin is introduced to us as a kind, patient softspoken man who 
takes frights away from children and who deals out chocolates, but 
who turns out to be a werewolf.

> Snape is introduced as and ugly man with a hooked nose, who is 
strict and sarcastic and who has no patience for fools. A man dressed 
in black, who looks scary and acts scary. And he rescues and protects 
the children in his care.

Lanval:
And they lived happily, or not so happily, ever after. The End. Good 
thing nothing of significance has happened, plot- or characterwise, 
since Lupin was exposed as a big bad werewolf, and Snape rescued and 
protected some children at some point... yep, Lupin has been shown to 
be Bad and Snape has been shown to be Good, and golly, what a fine 
Moral Fairy Tale we have here. Hope all the children have learned the 
lesson: don't judge a book by its cover! And of course that's SO not 
a cliche...

The books Rowling wrote are a bit more complex, thank God.


>Marion:

> Personally, I'd prefer the crabby, nasty, ugly man who protects my 
children instead of endangers them. Who tells the cold hard unpopular 
truth instead of lying to make himself look better. 

Lanval:
Oh, the (ex?) racist with the terrorist background?