Lupin vs Snape (was Lupin and "Severus")

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 157097

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at ...> wrote:
>
> > Renee:
> > 
> > And I wouldn't call
> > > Snape a reliable witness when it comes to giving testimony about
the Marauders.
> > 
> 
> Pippin:
> So much for the theory that Snape outed Lupin because he wanted
> revenge. <g> Isn't the underlying reason for Snape's hatred supposed
> to be his belief  that Lupin was in on the attempt to murder Snape?

Renee:
Hopefully I'm not misinterpreting this, as I'm not sure I follow your
argument here. You can very well want revenge because of a perceived
wrong; Snape's conviction that Lupin was in on the attempt, however
mistaken, would be more than enough to want it (Lupin's
non-intervention in the Pensieve scene and similar episodes would be
another motive). But I fail to see how that would make Snape a
reliable witness. His grudge against the Marauders makes him biased. 

> Pippin:

> But alas, those who think ESE!Lupin is plausible don't like it, and
those
> who like it don't think it's plausible. I don't really like it
myself -- I've
> got no desire to see Lupin brought down --but it fits the evidence, IMO.

Renee:
If those who like it are the people who don't like Lupin, this could
have something to do with his perceived weakness. If you see Lupin as
a week, passive wimp without initiative, the ESE!Lupin theory doesn't
sound plausible, because it requires a rather different personality.
If, OTOH, you see Lupin as a flawed yet sympathetic character, you'll
do your utmost to marshall arguments that counter the theory. (And the
more effort both sides put into formulating and defending their
arguments, the more attached they become to their own convictions, I
guess.) 

As for fitting the evidence, in Eco's Name of the Rose, all the
evidence fits William of Baskerville's theory about they abbey murders
and yet he turns out to be wrong. People have been convicted based on
evidence that fit the accuser's theory - but in some cases, this later
turned out to be a judicial error. 


>  Lupin is, IMO, even more repressed than Snape. His subconscious
> desire for payback shows itself as passive aggression and the anger
> he subconsciously wishes he could express to others projects itself
> and becomes the fear of what his friends would do if they discovered
> what he was really like.  Would that fear drive him to murder? 
> We know he was ready to kill Pettigrew.
> 
> That in itself ought to be a great big bouncing ferret of a clue. 
> A murderer in full possession of his faculties has to be called
> something worse than 'weak', IMO.

Renee:
Okay, I can see how your analysis of Lupin's fear could work. Would it
drive him to murder? 

We know that Harry was ready to crucio Bellatrix, but his Crucio
wasn't successful. We don't know whether Sirius and Lupin would have
succeeded in killing Wormtail, so whether they were `ready' to kill
him remains an unanswered question. As it is, they never even got
around to trying, because JKR needed Harry to show his noble side. So
I'd say neither Lupin nor Sirius deserve the name of murderer. 

The `in full possession of his faculties' is also debatable, given the
stressful situation and Lupin's imminent transformation. But I'm
willing to assume it wasn't that bad, given the fact that he does seem
to be mostly in charge in the Shack. 

Turning the antelope into a pelican, I see a man who has been robbed
of all his friends - who made an unbearable condition bearable to him.
A man who is also rightfully angry because of Sirius's suffering
(probably also angry at himself for not doubting Sirius's guilt). And
last but not least, a man facing a traitor who caused the death of a
helpless child's parents and would have caused the death of the child
itself if things hadn't gone differently. That wouldn't have made the
murder of Wormtail right, but it rather changes the motivation from
fear of other people's opinions to something else.

Only, I'm afraid that the ESE!Lupin theory effectively obscures the
image of the pelican.      


Pippin: 
> If Lupin found himself helping the werewolves more than he 
> should out of a desire to be liked, Voldemort would find out. Then
> what? Would Lupin have the courage to throw himself on Dumbledore's 
> mercy? I don't think so. 

Renee:
But Lupin isn't helping the werewolves, he's trying to change their
mind despite the fact that he has very little to offer them. Which
makes him unpopular with them - so much for the desire to be liked.
And if Voldemort found out what he was doing, Lupin wouldn't throw
himself on Dumbledore's mercy, because he'd be dead.