[HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin vs Snape (was Lupin and "Severus")

[fair wynn]

No: HPFGUIDX 157101


> > Pippin:
> > So much for the theory that Snape outed Lupin because he wanted
> > revenge. <g> Isn't the underlying reason for Snape's hatred supposed
> > to be his belief  that Lupin was in on the attempt to murder Snape?

wynnleaf
It is, of course, perfectly possible for Snape to have multiple reasons.

>Renee:
. But I fail to see how that would make Snape a
>reliable witness. His grudge against the Marauders makes him biased.

wynnleaf
Most of Snape's observations about the Marauders have received some 
collaborative evidence in the books.  His opinions about Lupin's involvement 
in POA are understandable, even if they were somewhat incorrect.  However, 
we do see at least one definite instance of Snape's bias causing him to 
exaggerate (where in HBP he says the Marauders always attacked him 4 to 1).  
So we know that bias *can* affect Snape's observations, therefore we do have 
to take his reports and opinions as with at least a few grains of salt -- at 
least until we have some other evidence.  However, for many of his comments, 
we *do* have other evidence in canon that backs up what he says.

>
> > Pippin:
>
> > But alas, those who think ESE!Lupin is plausible don't like it, and
>those
> > who like it don't think it's plausible. I don't really like it
>myself -- I've
> > got no desire to see Lupin brought down --but it fits the evidence, IMO.

wynnleaf
I find myself leaning more and more toward what I call traitor!Lupin -- 
whether he's weak, or evil or whatever.  But I actually *lik* Lupin, so this 
is a hard one for me.  I think part of what is influencing me is that JKR 
almost certainly has another surprise character twist for us in Book 7.

I think she's placed a lot of reader attention onto Snape's loyalties, who's 
going to die, is DD alive or how did he die?  and similar questions in order 
to, like a magician, keep our eyes elsewhere while she sets up her really 
Big Surprise.  Of course, that surprise could be something other than a 
character shock, but JKR tends to use mostly character shocks as her big 
twists.  So I'm thinking we're almost certainly going to see some character 
other than Snape shock us with either being good when we thought he/she was 
evil or a traitor when we thought he/she was good.

Lupin really fits the type, more than any other.  Especially if Snape is 
good.  Because if Snape is good, it makes the most sense for the other big 
reversal to be somehow connected to Snape, especially through a longish 
chain of events through the story and its background.

By the way, I'm so surprised that on both sides of the issue, so many people 
are trying to show how the Lupin question does or does not mirror Jane 
Austens Pride and Prejudice.  What in heaven's name does it matter??  If JKR 
likes Austen and wants to use similar plot devices, I would certainly hope 
that she wouldn't feel some ridiculous need to copy Austen's.  The general 
notion of having a character who is trusted by all the good guys, considered 
really nice, someone who doesn't deserve for anyone to think badly of them, 
someone who the good guys turn to for support and encouragement -- and have 
that person turn out to be the ethically weak person, or villian.  That's 
the basics of what Austen did with her surprise bad guys.  Why would JKR 
have to copy her exactly to use that basic device?  And if she didn't copy 
that exactly, so what?  It's certainly not proof that she isn't using the 
basic device.

wynnleaf

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