Cohesion

[quick_silver71]

No: HPFGUIDX 162282

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at ...> 
wrote:
<snip>
> Carol responds:
> I agree that he couldn't save the wandless, weakened Dumbledore, who
> would be killed by the DEs if not by the poison if neither Draco nor
> Snape killed him, and that Dumbledore wanted Snape to save himself
> rather than be killed by the UV or the DEs, as he surely would have
> been fighting against four DEs, one of them a ravening werewolf who
> didn't need to transform to rip people apart with his teeth. Skilled
> as Snape is, he can't duel and use Legilimency on four opponents at
> once.

Quick_Silver:
I disagree that Snape couldn't have saved Dumbledore on Tower (in the 
context of their being to many Des). In OotP we see Dumbledore take 4 
wizards (albeit one secretly being on his side) while not hitting 
Harry, McGonagall, and Marietta, at the end of OotP, we see Kingsely 
battling two wizards at the same time, we see the Death Eaters 
fleeing at the mere presence of Dumbledore (and there was at least 
seven(?) still standing compared to 3 Order wizards), Dumbledore 
implies to Fudge after dueling Voldemort that he can fight the Aurors 
can despite being outnumbered and win again, in the cave scene of HBP 
we see Harry take down six or seven Inferi with one body-bind curse, 
it's implied that Harry hit multiple with Inferi with his 
Sectumsempra curses, and when he's chasing Snape Harry will drop two 
of the wizards (or in this case a wizard and a witch) that were on 
the Tower. On the Tower we have 3 wizards (and the brother sister 
pair are not exactly amazing duelists...I think Harry beats the 
brother twice during the chase sequence?), a werewolf, and Draco. 
What's more the Death Eaters, even the werewolf, are described as 
being cowed by Snape. Snape's supposed to be a master of Defense 
against the Dark Arts, skilled at non-verbal magic, has his own 
spells (including Sectumsempra), the Death Eaters are fixated on 
Dumbledore (Amycus's eyes and wand don't even leave Dumbledore when 
he talks to Snape), and the Death Eaters seem genuinely intimidated 
by Snape. 

So Snape doesn't have to duel the Death Eaters on the Tower he could 
simply crush them. It's not like their expecting him to turn on them.

Having said all of that I agree that Snape couldn't save Dumbledore 
on the Tower...I just don't think that the Death Eaters had anything 
to do with it (in the sense that they were a physical threat...IMO 
they represent the risk of Snape being exposed). I put it more to 
having a plan with Dumbledore, the UV, Draco's moral journey, and 
Harry being there.

It's just to me by saying that Snape couldn't have won on the Tower 
you knock the underlying emotional context of that scene IMO. Snape 
holding back on the Tower is more emotional because he wants to save 
Dumbledore (his mentor) but he can't because of the cause, the plot, 
the greater good, perhaps the UV, etc, etc. And that then explains 
why he freaks out when Harry calls him a coward...Snape just made the 
hardest choice of his life and here's Harry calling him a coward.

If Snape couldn't have won on the Tower then there's no real choice 
involved...die pointlessly or kill Dumbledore and continue with the 
plan. It just doesn't strike me as being as deep as Snape being able 
to win on the Tower although you may disagree.

Quick_Silver