Harry, Draco and bathroom/ A couple of theories - Snape

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 162331

> Magpie:
> I could believe that Harry might have been moved a bit (though 
he's 
> conscious of being so)--Harry doesn't do anything bad to Malfoy in 
the 
> scene, I agree.  I just think it's going to far to assume that 
Harry would 
> have his heart melted by just the sight of Draco's crying.  <SNIP>

Alla:

Right, no. Not heart melted of course and why would he be suddenly 
sympathetic to his plight after all crap Malfoy did to him and his 
friends after all? But judging by the fact that at the end Harry is 
talking about having tiny bit of pity for Malfoy I think he is 
getting there.

 
> Magpie:
> I don't think I would.  Because while obviously Harry hasn't done 
anything 
> to Draco while Bellatrix just killed Sirius I think both boys are 
throwing 
> the curse out of desperation and their own feelings. <SNIP> The 
distinction I'm making isn't in the circumstances--there I agree 
that 
> someone having just murdered a loved one is totally different from 
someone 
> just walking in on you crying.

Alla:

Mmmmm. I have to think about it to decide what I think. I will 
probably agree with you, especially since we agree about 
circumstances.

 
> Magpie:
><SNIP>They are 
> certainly being provoking, but nobody's attacked physically except 
> themselves.

Alla:

My point is whether Trio was justified to attack them. I consider 
what Draco and his goons did to be more than enough to justify the 
response.

Harry had just been tortured and come here and threaten his 
Muggleborn friend? Heeee, I had just decided that I don't hate 
Malfoy anymore, but every time I think of this scene, my hatred is 
here again.

Yes, I checked the book, no mention of the wands, you are right, but 
narrator also describes them as looking more menacing ( Draco and 
Co) than he ever saw them, so I would argue that the possibility of 
deducing the physical threat was also there. IMO of course.

But whether it was there or not, what I saw happened made me think 
of Trio's response as justified.

 
> Magpie:
> I think even Harry recognizes that Draco is not just starting 
things in the 
> bathroom.  He's a teenaged boy come upon by his worst peer enemy 
while he's 
> crying like a baby.  Harry's unfortunately done something like 
accidentally 
> cornering a wounded animal and it strikes at him.  Harry has not 
actually 
> done anything wrong himself, and Draco doesn't have any 
justification for 
> hurting Harry--but I can't believe that as another teenaged boy 
Harry 
> wouldn't find Draco's attack in that scene inevitable, which is 
why Harry 
> isn't really angry when he's fighting Malfoy the way he usually 
is. Draco is 
> in a twisted way acting in response to Harry. It's not literal 
self-defense 
> at all, but I do think he's acting out of a sense of defending 
himself.

Alla:

I do understand what you are saying about Draco's twisted ways and 
why he would think that he is acting defending himself. In short I 
get and accept that this is what Draco may be thinking.

But let's talk about what we had seen happened in this scene. Draco 
may think that 
he is defending himself, but the one who truly does it is Harry. 
Harry does not throw curse at Draco first. It is the opposite. I am 
just puzzled as to how scene of Harry defending himself suddenly 
gets transformed in **Draco** defending himself.

Harry not only does not do anything wrong, he defends himself 
against Unforgivable. Blinks.


> Alla:
> > And people are wondering why Snape did not press charges against
> > Harry here. Um, maybe because Draco dearest would have landed in
> > Azkaban first?
> 
> Magpie:
> I have to say--I doubt it since Draco didn't actually cast the 
Unforgivable. 
> Not that I have a big problem with Snape not pressing charges--I 
think 
> pressing charges is rarely something that's going to happen in 
canon, and 
> anyway it wasn't something I wanted Snape to do either.  But of 
all the 
> reasons he had for not doing so, I don't think Malfoy going to 
prison was 
> really a danger (for that at least).

Alla:

He started though - we don't know for sure if wand does not register 
the attempt - it may or it may not IMO.

I mentioned Snape not pressing charges because it is often mentioned 
as something awfully noble on Snape's part and the best I can come 
up with is Snape protecting little ferret against Azkaban, not 
protecting Harry against being expelled.
> > Jenni from Alabama:
> 
> > I mainly feel that Snape showed his true colors on that tower 
and 
> > really is a bad guy, a death eater and evil. 
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Yeah, I agree that at this point it's more about "a feeling" than 
> about canon evidence. I myself feel that Snape is on our side. 
> Besides, if he is evil, as you say, why would he save Harry in the 
> last book as you suggest (sorry, I snipped this part of your post 
by 
> mistake)? 

Alla:

Um, I agree that it can go either way of course, but no my feelings 
of Snape being evil are based on some canon facts - one of them is 
Snape killing Dumbledore. Which can be interpreted as DD!M Snape, 
but it is so not the first thought that comes to my mind.

As to why Snape may save Harry at the end if he is evil, well that 
would be his redemption then - as in he sees Harry's eyes, Lily in 
them, blah, blah. :)



  
>> zanooda:
> 
> Well, this is not a very good example of Snape serving LV, 
because, 
> if LV wanted to kill Harry personally, all Snape needed to do at 
that 
> moment was to stun him and take him from Hogwarts with the help of 
> other DEs. Snape could have taken Harry to LV that night, but he 
> didn't.

Alla:

Maybe Snape believes the Prophecy and wants to see who wins at the 
end Harry or Voldemort? I mean one can sure interpet Snape's ( 
Potter is for the Lord - paraphrase) as Snape saving him, OR one can 
do straightforward interpretation - as in Snape follows the orders 
and reserves Potter for Dark Lord to play with.


  
> 
> > Jenni from Alabama (wishing the voice would just shut up!)
> 
> zanooda:
> 
> Haha, I wish I had a voice in my head telling me that Snape is 
ESE! 
> In this case, if it turns out to be true, I could at least say 
that I 
> had my doubts :-). But no, I don't have any doubts about Snape's 
> loyalties. I have doubts about many things in the books, but not 
> about this.


Alla:

That is a good analogy. I believe that Snape only cares for himself 
and would not hesitate to do an evil deed if it will help him or 
that he is acting under Life debt premise, but I always have this 
voice, hehe - as I mentioned , it will help me to not be too 
dissapointed if Snape is DD!M :)



IMO

Alla, counts to five and dissappears.