Sirius, Snape and werewolf incident/ Quote from PoA.

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 162520

> wynnleaf,
> Even if Sirius supposedly didn't think that Snape would die or be 
> injured, one would hope that at least after the incident occurred, 
> teachers impressed upon Sirius that these were the likely results 
of 
> Snape's meeting up with a werewolf.  Yet even as an adult (1 year 
> out of Azkaban) Sirius still thought that Snape "deserved" his 
> prank -- and at that point Sirius should have been well aware that 
> the prank could have resulted in Snape's death.  

Alla:

How is this relevant to the argument that Sirius wanted Snape to die? 
Yes, he thinks Snape deserves the prank, he does not say that Snape 
deserved to die.

Whether or not he should have been aware that prank could have 
resulted in Snape death after the fact does not tell me anything 
about his state of mind when Prank occurred.
So, yes, I think that Sirius wanting Snape to die has no canon 
support, but of course we can learn the opposite in book 7.

> wynnleaf
> Problems with this possibility.  How would we ever discover this in 
> Book 7?  Apparently the Marauders thought that Snape was just 
> snooping to get them expelled, so Lupin isn't going to reveal some 
> extra knowledge about Snape's intentions.  That means that if Snape 
> really intended to kill Lupin, no one knows, but him.  I don't see 
> Snape as the type of character to -- like Voldemort -- make some 
> long incriminating speech about how way-back-when he tried to kill 
> Lupin/werewolf.  I tend to think if we can't invision how JKR would 
> reveal something, we have to assume it didn't happen.  But I'm sure 
> you'll think of something....

Alla:

Why does he need to make long speeches? Of course he does not make 
long ones, but shout something revealing during confrontation with 
Lupin, let's say? Why not?

Something similar to **you and your filthy father** during his 
confrontation with Harry, something like - I should have killed you 
long time ago, werewolf, when Lupin, let's say catches Snape as 
prisoner and Harry is present. I totally see it as possibility.

 
>> wynnleaf
<SNIP>
But if his purpose had been to kill Lupin, then his real 
> feeling wouldn't be "oh damn, my enemy saved my life!" but 
> instead, "Foiled again!  That idiot James messed up my perfect plan 
> to kill Lupin.  I had this great spell that kill werewolves.  I 
> didn't need to be 'saved.'  I just needed a chance at a good 
shot."  
> There's no way, if Snape felt he could have killed the werewolf 
> himself - and even wanted to do so -- that he'd feel he owed his 
> life to James.

Alla:

How do we know hat in addition to ""my enemy saved my life"" he does 
not feel "foiled again"?


 
> > Alla:
>  There is only one book 
> > left as we all know, and still JKR promised more about that 
> blasted 
> > night, so that maybe rather important to the end of the books IMO.
> 
> wynnleaf
> Does anyone know where that quote is?  I've read it before and I 
> actually thought it was a little ambiguous as to whether JKR meant 
> we'd learn more about the prank, or simply more about the hatred 
> between Snape and the Marauders or Sirius.  I tried to find it on 
> Accio Quotes (used to be Quick Quotes) and can't locate it.

Alla:

I could not search now, I have link at home, if nobody posts by that 
time, I can send it to you. As far as I remember it starts with why 
Sirius send Snape to the shack and she answers because he hated him 
and it was mutual and you will find out more about it. I think it 
alluded rather bluntly to finding more about both, IMO.

 
> 
> Alla quoted from POA
<SNIP of the quote, go read UPTHREAD>
> p.186, 
> > PoA, paperback, am.ed.
> > 
> > Again, I don't have any thoughts about it, I just find it strange 
> and 
> > I don't know why.
> >
> wynnleaf
> I'll have to look up who said this.  I'm assuming Lupin?  It could 
> be some part of a bigger story eventually, OR it could just be 
> another good example of how Lupin is so deft at telling partial 
> truths and shifting focus toward or away from things, in order to 
> hide truth.  Whether he's ultimately a good guy or bad guy, he is 
> definitely skilled at hiding the truth.

Alla:

Could be, could be as I said I cannot pint point why I find it 
strange. Maybe just because another character is mentioned who lost 
the eye.

Yes, Lupin said it.

> zgirnius:
> The line does not seem strange to me. I see it as playing a couple 
of 
> different purposes. In the context of PoA, it establishes the 
Willow 
> as a danger (which Our Heroes will later face) and is a clue for 
> those subtle enough to look for 'em (not me, I rip through the 
books 
> to see what happens next!) that the Willow is somehow connected 
with 
> Lupin. The second purpose is relevant to our discussion. It 
indicates 
> that Snape was knowingly breaking a school rule when he went into 
the 
> passage, above and beyond merely being out past curfew.
<SNIP>

Alla:

Right the strange thing to me after the fact is not the line about 
Whomping willow, that I agree was meant to empathize connection with 
Lupin I guess, but games, broken eyes, as I said "name only" 
character and for some reason broomstick. Why is broomstick mentioned 
at all?

Ugh, wierd. You could be right. I don't know. 

> > World Book Day Chat, 2004:
> > Kyla: What made Sirius decide to send Snape to the Willow?
> > JK Rowling replies -> Because Sirius loathed Snape (and the 
feeling 
> was entirely mutual). You'll find out more about this in due course.
> 
> zgirnius:
> And I agree with wynnleaf that this is ambiguous. We may be 
learning 
> more about the 'prank' or more about the feelings of loathing 
between 
> Sirius and Snape (or both).
>

Alla:

Oh, thanks Zara. IMO as I said above it is rather clear that we will 
learn about both - their mutual hatred and prank.