The Train Scene GoF

[quick_silver71]

No: HPFGUIDX 162532



--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at ...> wrote:
<snip>
> Betsy Hp:
> Oh yeah, definitely some Ender's Game influence at play here. <g>  
> But here's the thing, while Ender *was* facing dangerous bullies on 
> the one hand and an unbeatable enemy on the other, Draco is neither 
> of those beasts.  *Especially* to Harry.  Draco isn't strong 
enough, 
> and Harry isn't weak enough.
> 
> When Ender goes to the wall he does so because he's got no choice.  
> As you say, Ender is in danger of either death or very serious 
injury 
> or the annihilation of the human race.  Harry is in danger of being 
> annoyed.  Possibly being pissed off.  That's all Draco brings to 
the 
> table in this scene.

Quick_Silver:
Ok I'm going to start by saying I'm mostly in agreement with your 
arguments on this. 

The thing that intrigues me, if you will, about that scene is that 
Draco should have no doubt what's going to happen to him and his 
friends. The point was made as early as PS that the Trio would 
respond with physical force to insults (the wizards duel), then 
reiterated by Ron in CoS (the slug curse), and by Hermione slapping 
Draco in PoA (for insulting Hagrid). Draco himself attacked Harry 
from behind when Harry shot back a "your momma" insult (which is only 
the oldest insult known to humans). 

So Draco and co. walk into the compartment of his equals (I don't 
think there's any bullying going on here) and Draco starts shooting 
his mouth off. He ignores Harry ordering him and then boom the attack 
occurs. But that doesn't make it right just expected although I'll 
admit to finding it weird (I mean you go looking for trouble
then 
can't handle it).

<snip>
>Betsy Hp:
> I'll also add that Ender would never, *never* step on the body of a 
> downed enemy.  There's no message in that.  (Unless the message 
> is "I'm a bully!")  There's certainly no honor in it.  And it's the 
> sort of behavior the empathetic Ender would find horrifying.
> 
> The Trio's and the twins treatment of the bodies of Draco and 
Crabbe 
> and Goyle showed their complete and total contempt for those boys.  
> Draco and his friends were so beneath the Gryffindors they didn't 
> even deserve simple human consideration.

Quick_Silver:
I agree with you about the treatment of bodies (although it should be 
noted Draco did show contempt for Hermione touching him with his 
badge/Mudblood insult...a little reversal perhaps?). 

That being said I think the most interesting thing about the scene is 
that we hear nothing more of it...at least not from Draco (not that I 
remember
I think Harry references back to it?...I'll have to check). 
Even when a similar incident happens to Harry, Harry basically writes 
it off (aside from some bruised pride) and follows Draco not to get 
revenge for the incident but because of his suspicions about Draco. 
And it doesn't seem to change Draco's relationship with the Trio in 
OotP there's not hints that he's trying extra hard to get back at 
them indeed two months later he's back in their compartment (the only 
difference being he leaves when Hermione says get out). 

Even the argument that the Trio should act better because they're 
good guys doesn't ring true to me because I don't view them as being 
that much better then Draco. And I don't mean that in a bad way 
considering that Draco in HBP showed himself to be capable of empathy 
or at least a sense of self-preservation (really IMO either would 
do...people underestimate self-preservation;)).   

> Betsy Hp (who feels the only bullies in this scene were the twins --
> I know, I know, they torture small animals in a *funny* way... <g>)

Quick_Silver (completely torn over this issue but agreeing that the 
Twins are...morally interesting to say the least)