ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 162560

> >>Magpie:
> > <snip> 
> > That's why, imo, OFH!Snape arguments always have to focus on the 
> > fact that he's agreeing to kill Dumbledore instead of the more 
> > important aspect, which is what happens if he doesn't do as he's 
> > promised. I plan to come to work on Monday morning. I'm there 
> > mostly every Monday morning. But if someone asked me to take a UV 
> > that I would be at my desk Monday morning? I wouldn't do it.      
> > Because there's no wiggle room in a vow that kills me.
> > <SNIP>

> >>Alla:
> Just small thing, or maybe not so small :) The fact that Snape is 
> going to die is more important that he agreed to kill Dumbledore?   
> Why is that?

Betsy Hp:
Because an OFH!Snape would care more about his *own* death than the 
death of Dumbldore.  IOWs, the burden on explaining why an Out For 
Himself!Snape works with the UV isn't on explaining why such a Snape 
would want Dumbledore dead.  It's on explaining why such a Snape 
would magically tie his life to *anything*.

If OFH!Snape is okay with killing Dumbledore, he doesn't need a UV to 
make himself do it.   But why would an OFH!Snape make a vow that 
means he is no longer out for himself?

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> OFH!Snape is not the man who does not care about anybody. I do not 
> think such characters exist, unless they are meant to be           
> completely cartoonish.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
By definition, he actually kind of has to be.  If you're arguing that 
Snape's main motivation is to protect himself, you can't turn around 
and say, actually, he'll lay his life on the line for so and so.  In 
that case Snape is no longer putting himself first.

I mean, sure he can *care* about someone else, to a certain extent.  
But he can't put their lives in front of his own, not and remain 
primarily motivated by his own survival.

> >>Alla:
> <snip>
> I mean, I despise Narcissa, but she clearly loves her son. That in 
> my book does not make her any less of the evil follower of          
> Voldemort.  Just as if Snape wanted to protect Draco because he     
> likes the boy for whatever reasons, but would have cared less about 
> Dumbledore's goals does not become DD!M Snape. So he has human      
> emotions, but he is still primarily concerned with his own goals   
> (that is if he is OFH! I mean)
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
But to be out for himself, Snape's own goal is to survive.  Possibly 
acheive some measure of greatness once this particular war is over.  
What we learned in Spinner's End is that Narcissa is not out for 
herself.  She puts her son's safety ahead of her own.

By taking the UV, by tying his life to the life of Draco, Snape shows 
that, whatever his goals are, he is not out for himself.  Because 
he's put Draco's safety ahead of his own life.  Snape is no longer 
concerned with his *own* survival.  He's concerned with Draco's.

And that means he is not out for himself.

> >>Alla:
> As long as he is not for Dumbledore or for Voldemort, he can be    
> friend, protector, lover of any number of people (I don't think the 
> number is that great but theoretically, why not?)

Betsy Hp:
Oh sure, he can be.  But that means he's not OFH.  It's an entirely 
different Snape you've created.  Ambiguously Motivated!Snape, I 
guess, or Out For Unknown Character!Snape (LiD!Snape can fit into 
this particular Snape, if that matters).  He's on *someone's* side, 
just not Dumbledore's or Voldemort's and not his own.  Because he's 
willing to risk his life for someone who is not himself.  So he's no 
longer out for *himself*. 

Betsy Hp (kind of hoping AM!Snape or OFUC!Snape doesn't catch on 
because the abbrevations are starting to get a little bit out of hand 
and is one them looking a tiny bit naughty? <g>)