[HPforGrownups] The Cabinet Plan...again (was:Re: The UV (was ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey?)

[Magpie]

No: HPFGUIDX 162767

>> Magpie:
>> Whether it makes Draco seem worse I think it's canon. But he isn't
>> going beyond his basic mission at all by bringing in the DEs
>> intentionally. The DEs are there to give him his shot at
> Dumbledore.
>> You're right that this could possibly lead to even more damage if
>> the DEs decided to attack students, but Draco himself wouldn't
>> necessarily think that.
>
> a_svirn:
> Wouldn't he, though? I wonder why not? He jolly well should have
> thought of that. Just like he should have thought about the
> possibility of poisoning someone else besides Dumbledore with that
> mead. He might not have *stopped* to think about such things, but I
> think he realised perfectly well the possible consequences of his
> actions. He'd be an idiot not to, and we know very well he's
> anything but.

Magpie:
I think you put your finger on it by saying he didn't stop to think about 
such things (and probably didn't dwell on it when they entered his mind). 
My point was that Draco was not, as the OP was saying, intentionally going 
beyond his original orders to hurt/kill as many people as possible. I don't 
think he's saying, "And if I bring the DEs then along with killing 
Dumbledore I might get a lot students killed too!"

Of course Draco's using the DEs and things like the poison and necklace 
could all lead to consequences for other people that were easily 
forseeable--I agree.

> Magpie:
> I doubt he envisions them having anything to
>> do with the students. Interestingly, the Death Eater who
>> specifically does express a desire to attack students is the one
>> Draco admits to DD he didn't expect.
>
> a_svirn:
> Oh, that's clearly a lie. Grayback was part of the group from the
> start.

Magpie:
You thought he was lying? I didn't.. Greyback was involved in some 
ways--Draco uses him as a threat to Borgin--but I think Draco's telling the 
truth when he says he didn't know he would come--I can't imagine he's lying 
to Dumbledore in that last line. I think there's a point in the scene where 
he starts being honest with Dumbledore and never goes back. He would have, 
imo, responded differently to Dumbledore if he'd known Fenrir was coming.

> a_svirn:
> I agree, but I don't see how his internal conflict made him blind to
> the blatantly obvious. On the contrary, I think that if Draco had
> been so confident about his fellow death eaters' good behaviour or
> if he hadn't realised in how many ways his own attempts could
> miscarry his internal conflict could have been less intense.

Magpie:
I wouldn't say he had to be confident about those things, necessarily. I 
think he could very well be pushing thoughts like that out of his mind 
because he's "got to do it."  Which makes him responsible for the 
consequences. But I'm not trying to say that Draco couldn't have conceived 
of these outcomes. I'm just saying I think they were a risk he took to kill 
Dumbledore rather than something that he intentionally wanted to happen for 
extra evil. Not that this makes a difference in how dead his victims almost 
become or makes him more innocent of those crimes.

-m