[HPforGrownups] Re: ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey? (WAS: DDM!Snape the definition)

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 162773

Jen:
If Voldemort really expects Snape to kill Dumbledore as his back-up
plan then he pretty much expects Snape to die or go to Azkaban. Not
because he thinks Dumbledore will kill Snape, but because LV expects
1) Someone around Dumbledore who never trusted Snape will do the deed
or 2) Snape will fail and be captured by Aurors or 3) Snape won't be
able to go through with it thus proving he's loyal to Dumbledore.
Besides, Voldemort wouldn't believe anyone else is capable of killing
Dumbledore if he himself hasn't suceeded.

Debbie:
Voldemort's expectation that Snape will kill Dumbledore is nothing more than
a test of his loyalty.
It is my longstanding view that Voldemort has doubted Snape's loyalty at
least since PS/SS, based on the observations he made while stuck behind
Quirrell's head, and that it is little short of miraculous that Snape was
accepted back into the fold at the end of GoF, a supreme testament
to Snape's Occlumency skills and Voldemort's need for information.

It was useful to have Snape as a double agent, but I read Voldemort's desire
to get Dumbledore out of the way as part of the final preparation for the
big showdown with Harry.  Voldemort's overconfidence is such that he
believes that with Dumbledore out of the way, Harry will be an easy mark --
remember how earlier he denigrated Harry's skills.  Therefore, Snape is
available to do the job since Voldemort believes he no longer needs the
spying reports Snape has been providing to him.

Jen:
I definitely agree Snape doesn't care if he dies. I'm not
completely convinced you can't stop the Vow once in progress because
we see Bella's 'astounded' face when Snape agrees to the final
clause. Maybe the two choices during the Vow are agreeing or
dropping

Debbie:
I read the astonishment as deriving from two related sources.  First is the
expectation that Snape will attempt to slither out of tough assignments, and
the first two clauses are not really difficult at all.  Second, she doesn't
trust him.  Snape just finished offering up all sorts of proofs which are,
really, unprovable.  Snape's vow -- to kill Dumbledore if Draco fails --
will be much better proof, if it happens as Snape expects it will.

Jen:
I'm still not seeing much of a motive for saying yes to the UV in the
first place. Snape's deep caring for Draco isn't that obvious if
Narcissa needs a death vow to ensure he'll protect him. And Snape is
a fool if he trusts Narcissa won't add in a few extra tasks to the
ones she's already mentioned (ACID POPS anyone, Snape acting the
way 'fools who love' act?). So to summarize, Narcissa went to Snape
for help but doesn't trust Snape will live up to his word, and Snape
can't say no to a death vow by two people who hold nothing over his
head....what's up with these people?!?

Debbie:
The answer to this is, to me, the same as the answer above.  Bella is too
skeptical of him for him to refuse.  And maybe Snape does suspect that
Voldemort is behind Narcissa's begging in the first place.  If not, why
would Bella be there at all?

My reading of the beginning of the chapter strongly implies that Narcissa
came of her own accord, judging from the way she's trying to lose Bella;
OTOH, Bella may be tailing her on Voldemort's orders.

 Grey!Snape is evidently not a uniform theory, or I would agree with Jen on
all these points.<g>

Debbie


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