Voldemort's Plan for Snape & the Ring Curse (Re: ESE, DDM., OFH, Grey..)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 162788

> Jen before: Besides, Voldemort wouldn't believe anyone else is 
> capable of killing Dumbledore if he himself hasn't suceeded.

zgirnius:
> I find this hard to believe. Snape is in the ideal situation to do
> so because he has managed to win Dumbledore's trust. it's nto about
> having more magical power than Voldemort, its about having a better
> opportunity.

Jen: Oh right, of course that's right. Hm, that has me thinking about 
something else. It's canon that Snape reported Dumbledore's injury 
(ring curse) to Voldemort and was questioned about it.  So what if 
something about Snape's answer aroused more than the usual amount of 
suspicion in Voldemort?  Something Snape couldn't completely hide 
with Occlumency, or at least not hide from the world's greatest 
Legilimens.  Perhaps a very subtle flicker that only Voldemort would 
pick up on and interpret correctly as a connection between Dumbledore 
and Snape of more significance than enemy and double-agent.

Now the ring happened several weeks before Spinner's End IIRC, so 
it's possible that event was the catalyst for Voldemort deciding to 
amend his plan to use Draco for punishment only.  He may have 
determined that Snape would be involved as a practical measure as 
well as a test of loyalty (see below).

> Debbie:
> Voldemort's expectation that Snape will kill Dumbledore is nothing
> more than a test of his loyalty.  It is my longstanding view that
> Voldemort has doubted Snape's loyalty at least since PS/SS, based 
> on the observations he made while stuck behind Quirrell's head, and
> that it is little short of miraculous that Snape was accepted back
> into the fold at the end of GoF, a supreme testament to Snape's
> Occlumency skills and Voldemort's need for information.

Jen: A test of loyalty is my thinking, too. Of the three possible 
outcomes I postulated for Voldemort's expectations when setting Snape 
the task, having Snape's actions confirm his loyalty (for one side or 
the other) was my favorite answer.

I really think Voldemort's plans for Snape go all the way back to 
ordering him to work at Hogwarts.  He wanted information, yes, but he 
also wanted someone placed at Dumbledore's side if and when he chose 
to move on Hogwarts and/or Dumbledore.  There could be something to 
the fact that Snape was a young man and now history is repeating 
itself with Draco, two young men given highly significant missions.  
Maybe Snape's task was seen as just as impossible as Draco's, that no 
way would Dumbledore allow the man who overheard the prophecy and 
delivered it to Voldemort be allowed into Hogwarts.  There may have 
even been a threat toward Snape's mum hanging over his head as 
punishment for delivering only part of the prophecy.

I could see a similar scenario between Dumbledore & Snape as we saw 
with DD and Draco, Dumbledore offering help for Eileen as an act of 
mercy and compassion because he realized Snape was seeing 'how far 
Voldemort was willing to go' and balking.  Then Dumbledore would feel 
it safe to give Snape the Hogwarts job knowing he wouldn't jeopardize 
Eileen's welfare.  (I believe Eileen will be the one 'hidden more 
completely'.) 

In "The Seer Overheard" Dumbledore says this: "I believe it to be the 
greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned---"
And of course the rest is cut off.  The reason he 
returned 'completely' maybe, 'absolutely'?  Voldemort's decision to 
target the Potters is the canon reason for Snape's return and his 
greatest regret, but that cut-off point could be important to the 
story since JKR likes this technique. 

Debbie:
> It was useful to have Snape as a double agent, but I read
> Voldemort's desire to get Dumbledore out of the way as part of the
> final preparation for the big showdown with Harry.  Voldemort's 
> overconfidence is such that he believes that with Dumbledore out of
> the way, Harry will be an easy mark -- remember how earlier he 
> denigrated Harry's skills.  

Jen: I totally agree. Just as Harry viewed Dumbledore as his 'last 
and greatest protector', so did Voldemort.  And both of them  
underestimate how much stronger Harry's power will prove to be.  
Voldemort doesn't know he has such a power specifically, but LV has a 
history of underestimating Dumbledore's magic which was Lily's magic 
as well.

> Debbie:
> I read [Bella's] astonishment as deriving from two related 
> sources.  First is the expectation that Snape will attempt to
> slither out of tough assignments, and the first two clauses are not
> really difficult at all.  Second, she doesn't trust him.  Snape 
> just finished offering up all sorts of proofs which are, really,
> unprovable.  Snape's vow -- to kill Dumbledore if Draco fails --
> will be much better proof, if it happens as Snape expects it will.

Jen: We're saying similar things here I think.  I was using Bella's 
astonishment as proof Snape could have stopped the Vow midway if he 
wanted to, that there was no magical reason he couldn't have backed 
out ('slithered out').  So Bella was astonished because he agreed to 
the final clause and doesn't stop the Vow, which is pretty much what 
you're saying, too (right?).  I also agree Snape's explanations did 
nothing to make Bella trust him more.  Though I'm still not sure why 
her trust mattered unless Snape was hiding his own disquiet, aware 
that Voldemort didn't view him as his most trusted servant like 
Narcissa was enthusing about. 

Debbie:
> Grey!Snape is evidently not a uniform theory, or I would agree with
> Jen on all these points.<g>

Jen: Hehe, then it wouldn't be Grey, right? So far we agree on the 
big points I'm pretty sure, that Snape really did turn to 
Dumbledore's side and HBP was a crucible for him.  Hey, that would 
tie into the alchemy symbolism! Snape in the crucible being 
transformed?  Just thought of that <g>.  Anyway, I view the tower as 
the endpoint for his decision-making and you believe he'll make it on-
page in book 7.  

Jen, who agreed with everthing zgirnius said about Felix 'tweaking' 
circumstances as well as helping the user see the best choice in a 
given situation.