The Cabinet Plan...again (was:Re: The UV (was ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey?)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 162837

> >>SSSusan:
> > I think not. He INTENDED to be a murderer.
>
> Betsy Hp:
> But not, as per Dumbledore, in his heart of hearts.

Alla:

My mind is totally boggling right now. Okay, he intended to be a
murderer not in his heart of hearts, just in his heart?

Seriously, not attempting any sarcasm or anything, but the fact is
Draco willingly attempted to kill Dumbledore twice, no?

So, how do you figure that he did not intend to do so?


> > >>Alla:
> > Besides just agreeing, I also think that when Dumbledore on the
> > Tower was saying that Draco is not a killer, he was absolutely
> > lying, because again - two murder attempts were done. :)
>
> Betsy Hp:
> You really think Dumbledore's last task was one of deception? I
> suppose it'll take Book 7 for the final say, but IMO it makes no
> story sense (unless Dumbledore is completely deconstructed in the
> last book and is revealed as a stupid old man; lying or mistaken
> about just about everything). If Dumbledore is either lying or
wrong
> about the core of Draco Malfoy, than he becomes a pathetic
failure.
> I honestly don't see JKR taking the story in that direction.

Alla:

I am saying that cold canon facts IMO of course, you may disagree
that they constitute cold canon facts contradict Dumbledore's
asssesment very strongly.

I do think that Dumbledore may have been deceiving Draco, somehow,
yes and saying what Draco needed to hear, knowing that there is a
chance that something in Draco may listen to DD.

> > >>Alla:
> > But I also think that here Dumbledore was lying for good
purpose -
> > he was trying to make Draco change his mind, to appeal to his
better
> > part, if such exists. And it is totally possible, loathe that as
I
> > am that he succeeded.
>
> Betsy Hp:
> Change Draco's mind about what though? What you're saying is that
> Draco *is* a killer, but Dumbledore reconstructed him somehow.
Which
> means Draco has become a tool in Dumbledore's hands too. He is
still
> a puppet of higher beings.

Alla:

Um, yeah, I am saying that Draco intended to become a murderer and
showed that by his murder attempts and Dumbledore pushed him towards
the right path, absolutely.

Whether Draco will accept or not it is IMO totally up in the air. My
instincts are telling me that little brat will accept, yes, but I
strongly disagree that calling someone who just committed two murder
attempts not a murderer, or if you wish "attempted murderer" is
correct.


> Betsy Hp:
> Draco did attempt to become a killer, a murderer.  But his attempt 
> was pathetic (as per Dumbledore and Snape, and Draco actually).

Alla:

Not per Ron, who almost died and not per Katie who spent several 
months in the hospital and who seemed to be in horrible pain. I 
would 
think they call Draco's attempts pretty well done.

Betsy Hp:
> And see, if just the attempt makes Draco a murderer, then it 
follows 
> that Harry is a sadist because he threw a Crucio at Bellatrix.  I 
> don't think this is how JKR is working things.
> 

Alla:

The difference of course that Draco's attempts **worked** as in his 
victims ( even though wrong people) could have died easily and did 
not 
die only by lucky chance and Harry's attempt as far as I remember 
did 
not cause any pain to Bellatrix, so it was not working.

IMO of course.