The Cabinet Plan...again (was:Re: The UV (was ESE, DDM, OFH, or Grey?)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 162844

SSSusan previously: 
> > I think you're right, Betsy, that DD said what he said on the 
> > tower because he either believed or hoped that Draco didn't 
> > *want* to be a murderer "in his heart of hearts" (or just his 
> > plain old heart <g>).  

zgirnius:
> Dumbledore was saying a bit more, I think. (Though, naturally, 
> he/I could be mistaken). It seemed to me that he was suggesting 
> Draco picked methods so elaborate and unlikely to succeed as a 
> subconscious form of self-sabotage....

SSSusan:
> > (Unless you would actually argue that Draco sabotaged himself in 
> > his first two schemes and tried not to succeed?)
 
zgirnius:
> I should read the whole post before starting to respond! 

SSSusan:
Hee.  It's happened to all of us, I think! :)


zgirnius:
> But yes, this is what I believe. In Dumbledore's words,
> 
> HBP: "Draco, they have been feeble attempts.... So feeble, to be 
> honest, that I wonder whether your heart has been really in it."

SSSusan:
Thanks, zgirnius, this is beginning to make more sense to me.  So 
the idea is that Dumbledore at least believed that Draco's attempts 
were feeble enough that they did, indeed, signal reservations within 
him, and perhaps even included self-sabotage, however conscious or 
unconscious?  And then this gets us back to the issue of whether 
Draco really & truly intended to murder?  And hence DD could be 
sincere in his comment to Draco on the tower?

 
zgirnius:
> I'm not sure that he is therefore necessarily feeling very guilty, 
> though. Here we can agree. In some ways that is a separate issue. 
> Sirius Black comes to mind. We are to believe he did not intend to 
> kill Snape, in the prank. But he certainly seems to feel little or 
> no guilt about the whole thing, ever, even after it has been 
> pointed out to him that he might have, if he hadn't been 
> lucky/possessed of a friend like James. Presumably because noone
> was irreparably harmed, after all. 

SSSusan:
Interesting comparison to Sirius and the prank re: the issue of 
guilt.  I think what you're suggesting is that, not having the 
action actually result in lasting harm might free a person from 
feeling much guilt?  Or perhaps that if the action had had deathly 
consequences, then the guilt might have appeared?  So, since Ron, 
Katie & DD were all okay at this point, perhaps Draco isn't feeling 
all that much guilt.  Or (heh) am I just way off what you're 
suggesting?

For those who do think Draco is manifesting massive feelings of 
guilt (with a shout-out to Betsy, of course, but to anyone really!), 
here's a question that would help me think about this further: The 
guilt you perceive or suspect in Draco, do you think is it over what 
happened/almost happened to Katie & Ron, or over what he 
tried/almost did do to DD?


Siriusly Snapey Susan, who obviously has more questions than ideas 
of her own on this topic, and who's off to ponder what she thinks 
will happen to Draco in Year 7.